XM177E1 Colt Commando CAR-15

fred333 · Mar 15, 2016

I've been vacillating over which direction to take this AR-15 SBR build into over the past few weeks. Initially, I wanted to build something modern, with a free-floating rail (likely a Daniel Defense MFR 12.0). But I've also been drawn to the classic, Vietnam-era XM177. Today, after checking out a friend's XM177, I decided to try to build a look-alike XM177E1/CAR-15/Commando SBR (my Form 1's pending, but I'm toying with the idea of just leaving the Sig Brace on there to avoid the paperwork hassles of interstate transportation since I often shoot in Fairfax....still ruminating over that part).

The photo shows where I'm at now. My plan, tentatively, is to locate a screw-on upper handle/rear sight, 12.5" barrel with the appropriate front sight/gas block (I realize the barrel's an inch or so longer than Colt's OEM spec, but I've already cancelled two Form 1s already and I'm willing to trade a bit of originality for a bit of increased reliability/velocity) and plastic hard guard shells.

This is primarily intended as a range toy and fun curiosity, so I don't need sub-MOA accuracy. But I do want it to be reasonably reliable with close- to -mid-range shoot-ability (~50~200 yards).

Anyway, I'm not sure where to source the parts (screw-on upper handle/rear sight, 12.5" barrel with front sight/gas block and two-piece plastic hand rails), or if there're any inherent design/function hurdles I should be aware of? Anyone have experience with a similar build or have relevant thoughts?

dontpanic · Mar 15, 2016

Go 11.5", the extra 1" is negligible as far as accuracy and reliability. An 11.5" barrel is very reliable, that's why Colt uses that length.

You will still be able to use 2-piece carbine handguards.

Over time you can also build the free float upper you had originally thought of.

FWIW I just bought an original Colt 11.5" upper off Gunvroker for less than $500.

I think if a suppressor company built an updated Moderator, they would sell like hotcakes.

You will also need one of these

http://www.tonyscustomsllc.com/product/c-a-r-stock-aluminum/

rayrevolver · Mar 15, 2016

I am doing something similar. I traded a flat top for the FN A2. Spray painted the lower with dark gray primer (nailed it! :lol:

).

Now for the barrel, using a LW profile BCM 16 middie with a slip over muzzle device.

If I get a wild hair I might cerakote the lower to match the upper or spray the upper with primer as well.

Gonna be a shooter and the worst clone on the planet!

dontpanic · Mar 15, 2016

rayrevolver said:
I am doing something similar. I traded a flat top for the FN A2. Spray painted the lower with dark gray primer (nailed it!).

Now for the barrel, using a LW profile BCM 16 middie with a slip over muzzle device.

If I get a wild hair I might cerakote the lower to match the upper or spray the upper with primer as well.

Gonna be a shooter and the worst clone on the planet!

Nice,

Gunkote makes the right color to match that upper.

rayrevolver · Mar 15, 2016

dontpanic said:
I think if a suppressor company built an updated Moderator, they would sell like hotcakes.

Updated moderators are being sold on Gunbroker. You want to pay $425 plus a $200 stamp for a "moderator" so your 11.5/12.5 sounds like a 16" carbine? I suppose if you want the real deal, they are available.

EDIT: Did you mean just a small silencer with modern technology? Hmmm, I wonder if something like the Trek would fit that bill?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=547297197

Griffin Armament makes a replica moderator and that is what I would use if I went down the short barrel route.

wbw2123 · Mar 15, 2016

I'm a fan.....

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=188084&highlight=retro+goodness

I can give you build specs if interested.

dontpanic · Mar 15, 2016

I was definitely thinking an updated version.

dontpanic · Mar 15, 2016

wbw2123 said:
I'm a fan.....

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=188084&highlight=retro+goodness

I can give you build specs if interested.

Where did you get that VFG? Where can I find one? I've been looking for a while.

fred333 · Mar 15, 2016

dontpanic said:
Go 11.5", the extra 1" is negligible as far as accuracy and reliability. An 11.5" barrel is very reliable, that's why Colt uses that length.
You will still be able to use 2-piece carbine handguards.
Over time you can also build the free float upper you had originally thought of.
FWIW I just bought an original Colt 11.5" upper off Gunvroker for less than $500.
I think if a suppressor company built an updated Moderator, they would sell like hotcakes.
You will also need one of these
http://www.tonyscustomsllc.com/product/c-a-r-stock-aluminum/

Great link and thank you!
ATF's gonna kill me if I ask them to cancel and re-submit for the third time (and go back to my original 11.5" barrel spec!)....not to mention having to return the upper I just picked up from Engage...
But I see that tonyscutsomsllc offers a complete 11.5" upper with everything I'd need to complete the project (barrel, handgrips, front sight/gas block, etc.) and for 2/3 the current cost. I'm wondering if that's the way to go???

5.56blaster · Mar 15, 2016

I carried an XM 177. Have the pictures around here someplace.

dontpanic · Mar 15, 2016

fred333 said:
Great link and thank you!
ATF's gonna kill me if I ask them to cancel and re-submit for the third time (and go back to my original 11.5" barrel spec!)....not to mention having to return the upper I just picked up from Engage...
But I see that tonyscutsomsllc offers a complete 11.5" upper with everything I'd need to complete the project (barrel, handgrips, front sight/gas block, etc.) and for 2/3 the current cost. I'm wondering if that's the way to go???

I would keep my eye on gunbroker. This one needs a carry handle and some CAR handguards. If you go this route, I have an extra set of handguards I'll give you. It also needs some paint removal.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=547537279

I just bought this for less than $500. All Colt. I already have a bolt, carry handle and handguard. So this worked for me.

wbw2123 · Mar 15, 2016

Be careful with the Tony's customs stuff. I have seen in person that the stock wobbles and the fit and finish on the moderator and other products is lacking.

If you are not dead set on aluminum, the early colt plastic stocks look the part and still sell for less than $100.

wbw2123 · Mar 15, 2016

dontpanic said:
Where did you get that VFG? Where can I find one? I've been looking for a while.

The vfg is home made to mimic field expedient mods done in the late sixties.

fred333 · Mar 15, 2016

dontpanic said:
I would keep my eye on gunbroker. This one needs a carry handle and some CAR handguards. If you go this route, I have an extra set of handguards I'll give you. It also needs some paint removal.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=547537279

That one's kind of a mess and it's starting at $600, which is already beyond my budget. Add in the cost/time to repair/repaint/replace the missing bits and the unknowns relating to its overall condition (it looks pretty "used") and....well, close but no horseshoe.
I think I'll ring Tonyscustoms tomorrow and see what their story is. Their cost to kit-out what I'm looking for with all new components is well within my budget and I'll be using the Sig Brace for now, so I won't need Tony's stock.

I just bought this for less than $500. All Colt. I already have a bolt, carry handle and handguard. So this worked for me.

If it's in as good a condition as it appears to be, it looks like you got a steal.
If you come across another one like that (<$500 in clean condition with the correct bits), please let me know. But for anything >$500, it'd have to be mint and exactly correct, so I can install onto the lower and go. I'm just not a serious AR kinda guy and I'm already over my original budget for something that's intended as mostly a range toy.
And thank you!

drive_accord_ingly · Mar 15, 2016

I think that that the Tony you guys are bantering about is that rather..ahem...jovial fellow from Ohio who shows up at the Chantilly shows. He does a bang up business and sells lots of parts and work at that show. I'm not sure of the quality of his parts so I don't mess around too much with him.

Here is mine:

Yes, I know I am not 100%. But she's good enough for me.

drive_accord_ingly · Mar 15, 2016

I haven't been the same since I saw Uncommon Valor with those LRRP's running in the rice paddy to the Huey with the Commandos in their hands chased by the NVA

fred333 · Mar 16, 2016

dontpanic said:
I would keep my eye on gunbroker. This one needs a carry handle and some CAR handguards. If you go this route, I have an extra set of handguards I'll give you. It also needs some paint removal.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=547537279

Slight change in plans....

After spending most of yesterday evening pricing the required upper parts from multiple sources, I'm looking at ~$650~$850....for the aftermarket parts I wanted, which is beyond the number I'd budgeted for this project. So I took another look on gunbroker (and a couple other online sources for Colts) and decided you may have a point. But I wanted to get another opinion, so I also checked with a friend who's owned/used a coupla Commandos for many years and he essentially mirrored your recommendation.

Bottom line: late last night, I bid on and won the upper you cited above. Payment went out this morning and I should have the Colt upper in a few days. My friend's got an extra OEM handguard and, possibly, a carry handle. So, presuming the gunbroker upper's in good shape, I should be all set. I just have to decide whether to refinish the Colt upper to match the new Engage lower (what's best for paint removal so as not to damage the original Colt finish?), or treat the new Engage lower to some enhanced patination (watchmaker speak for artificial "antiquing") to match the Colt upper or just leave the contraption as-is and go bake some more bread..

Oh, and thank you (again) for the tip/link!!

fred333 · Mar 16, 2016

By the way, any problem using a silencer on these? I reckon that, with the short barrels, the added back-pressure resulting from the addition of the muffler outta actually help cycling, but I wanted to get some input from you guys who've used one on a Commando.

dontpanic · Mar 16, 2016

fred333 said:
By the way, any problem using a silencer on these? I reckon that, with the short barrels, the added back-pressure resulting from the addition of the muffler outta actually help cycling, but I wanted to get some input from you guys who've used one on a Commando.

They're made to be suppressed. Just check what barrel length your suppressor is rated for.

Typically 5.56 suppressors are rated for 10.5" or longer.

fred333 · Mar 16, 2016

dontpanic said:
They're made to be suppressed. Just check what barrel length your suppressor is rated for.
Typically 5.55 suppressors are rated for 10.5" or longer.

Sounds good. :thumbsup:

XM177E1 Colt Commando CAR-15

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