4th Ciruit looking at FBI culpability in Dylan Roof incident

CrueChief · May 9, 2019

Well I guess if the Gov't/anyone takes on the responsibility for doing a task they should be held accountable for actually doing said task. Thats all I'm saying if you can't hold .gov accountable for doing the job they claim is their sole responsibility then maybe we need to have a different conversation.

So I think this may be a good thing to start that conversation.....sorry for using that term but.

rseymorejr · May 9, 2019

Allen65 said:
they should be required to get treatment, and take their prescribed meds if they're to be allowed to walk free in society.

And just how will that be accomplished? I have a family member that, when not medicated,has the tendency to become an unpredictable violent sociopath.For 50 years nobody has been able to force him to take his meds. Not the state, not his wife, nobody. The only saving grace is that he seems to be mellowing a bit in hos old age, just a bit.

teratos · May 9, 2019

Allen65 said:
Being a violent "hothead" should be treated as mental illness. I have had coworkers over the years with hair triggers who would get violent over minor disagreements, perceived insults, and traffic issues. Gun, fists, chair, doesn't matter what weapon they have access to, they're an unpredictable danger to others. Imprison them permanently as criminals? No, that wouldn't be fair; they just can't control themselves. But once they've proven they can't control themselves to the extent they commit acts of violence against others, they should be required to get treatment, and take their prescribed meds if they're to be allowed to walk free in society.

That is a very slippery slope. Some cases are a no-brainer, but think about how that could be abused....

Blacksmith101 · May 9, 2019

We should make it a crime to not take your medicine which will fix everything just like passing gun laws stops gun crime.

Allen65 · May 9, 2019

teratos said:
That is a very slippery slope. Some cases are a no-brainer, but think about how that could be abused....

I'd limit it to people who have been convicted of violent crime against others first. It's more humane than locking people up and throwing away the key, while also being more effective at crime prevention than the current revolving door justice system that puts violent offenders right back out on the streets quickly to find new victims. And, of course, due process protections would be an absolute must.

Protecting society as a whole requires removing some rights from those who harm others. There's a sweet, liberty-preserving spot somewhere between anarchy and China-style total repression with its persistent, pervasive surveillance. I just don't think we've found that spot yet and are still experimenting as a society.

rascal · May 9, 2019

Elliotte said:
VA was also shamed into fixing things by the mental health issues related to the Virginia Tech shooter. The General Assembly got it's act together and made changes to the laws that closed loopholes & fixed problems that allowed the Tech shooter to purchase his handguns

That was not just Virginia, but also problems found to have been introduced in many states due to new federal HIPAA

lazarus · May 10, 2019

Allen65 said:
Being a violent "hothead" should be treated as mental illness. I have had coworkers over the years with hair triggers who would get violent over minor disagreements, perceived insults, and traffic issues. Gun, fists, chair, doesn't matter what weapon they have access to, they're an unpredictable danger to others. Imprison them permanently as criminals? No, that wouldn't be fair; they just can't control themselves. But once they've proven they can't control themselves to the extent they commit acts of violence against others, they should be required to get treatment, and take their prescribed meds if they're to be allowed to walk free in society.

And for anger disorders there usually isn’t a pill you can take...

Partly my point of sometime you do have to restrict the rights of some people to protect everyone else. To what extent and when is a good conversation. The least, to the fewest the least often IMHO, but none to no one ever also isn’t a solution.

CrueChief · May 10, 2019

lazarus said:
And for anger disorders there usually isn’t a pill you can take...

Partly my point of sometime you do have to restrict the rights of some people to protect everyone else. To what extent and when is a good conversation. The least, to the fewest the least often IMHO, but none to no one ever also isn’t a solution.

This boils down to "Due Process." If the State goes about it correctly and fairly it is possible and reasonable to restrict ones's rights but Due Process is a must.

Blacksmith101 · May 11, 2019

CrueChief said:
This boils down to "Due Process." If the State goes about it correctly and fairly it is possible and reasonable to restrict ones's rights but Due Process is a must.

And the Due Process needs to happen BEFORE the rights are restricted.

lazarus · May 12, 2019

Blacksmith101 said:
And the Due Process needs to happen BEFORE the rights are restricted.

Agreed.

Sirex · May 13, 2019

"....finding that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act grants the government immunity in most situations when it fails to prevent weapons from winding up in the wrong hands"

So, the left wants private citizens and gun manufacturers to be held liable when a gun is misused in an unlawful way. They want manufacturers held liable if their products are used in a shooting. They want private citizens held liable if their guns are stolen. But the much waved Brady Gun Bill absolves the government, who they want keeping tabs on who should and shouldn't have guns, of liability for letting criminals buy guns. Much like during Fast and Furious
During the Obama/Holder reign where Arizona gun shops had reservations about proceeding with firearms transfers but were told to go thru with them by the ATF. Then when the gun shops spoke up afterwards the ATF went after the gun shops. Hypocrisy at its finest.

4th Ciruit looking at FBI culpability in Dylan Roof incident

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