when is short barrel = nfa

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  • davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    at what point does a 14.5" AR-15 barrel necessitate a tax stamp? can i possess the barrel loose with no issues? is it once i install the barrel in the upper? what if it's installed on an upper with no bolt in it? what if installed on a complete upper but no lower attached to it?

    i know (think) the easy answer is just to pin and weld a brake or flash hider to it to get it to 16" and then it's a non-issue (and that's what i plan on doing so that i don't have to get a stamp and wait) but just curious.

    and regarding pin and weld, what pin (length, diameter, type/metal) are most using? and how deep in the barrel are most going?

    thanks!
     

    Wheaton Hills Sportsman

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2012
    422
    Ask your friendly BATF? Perhaps they have a FAQ on their website. This must come up from time to time and there has to be an official answer.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    at what point does a 14.5" AR-15 barrel necessitate a tax stamp? can i possess the barrel loose with no issues? .....
    and regarding pin and weld, what pin (length, diameter, type/metal) are most using? and how deep in the barrel are most going?

    thanks!

    The basics of the issue are, can you easily make a SBR with the parts? So if you have a complete AR15 with a 14.5" barrel and no other guns that would be legal to accept the barrel... well its likely you are breaking the law since you can quickly put the barrel on the gun. One can argue a bit about this point but its unwise, IMO to put yourself in this position.

    Check ATF regs for info on pinning. But again... if they can put a wrench on it and twist it off easy... its not going to count.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    I'm pretty sure it happens when you attach the barreled upper to a rifle lower
    Winner

    The basics of the issue are, can you easily make a SBR with the parts? So if you have a complete AR15 with a 14.5" barrel and no other guns that would be legal to accept the barrel... well its likely you are breaking the law since you can quickly put the barrel on the gun. One can argue a bit about this point but its unwise, IMO to put yourself in this position.

    Check ATF regs for info on pinning. But again... if they can put a wrench on it and twist it off easy... its not going to count.

    Not so fast. Remember, any AR lower can become a pistol lower by simply removing the stock as long as that lower didn't start out(meaning transferred as) a rifle.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,278
    HoCo
    MOST AR owners who plan to go SBR first make the Lower (if you did the 77R as "other") a pistol with a pistol buffer and the <16" barrel
    Then apply for the stamp and while waiting operate it as a pistol.
    Then when the stamp comes in, finish it up as an SBR.

    You can apply for the SBR stamp once you get the serial # of the Lower.
    You can at any time after getting your lower, assemble it as a pistol and operate, use, store, transport as a Pistol
    as mentioned, if you own the barrel, you would be BEST off if you have something that IS currently, or is un assembled but can turn into a pistol
    Remember, you can make a lower a pistol, then a rifle, but if you were to assemble a lower into a rifle first, you can't turn into a pistol. You can turn into SBR, yes though but not pistol
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    If you only have an AR rifle, that started as a rifle, and you have an upper with a short barrel, you may be guilty of constructive intent. In other words, you have the parts to make an SBR and the intent, as the only possible way to use the parts you have is an SBR.

    Just the barrel, likely not.

    Or if you have an AR pistol and an AR rifle, then you are intending to use the 14.5" upper on the pistol.
     

    redeye

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 13, 2019
    100
    I'm pretty sure it happens when you attach the barreled upper to a rifle lower

    WRONG!!!!!


    It can happen well before that.

    If you have an AR rifle, and also have an extra “short” (less than 16”) barrel upper, then you are already in possession of an unregistered SBR.

    Doesn’t matter that they’ve never been attached. You have both under your control, and that’s a clear-cut case of constructive possession, since there is absolutely NO possible way you can legally use that barrel on that rifle in its current (non-NFA registered as a SBR) form.


    Get a spare stripped lower. Keep it as a “pistol”, and never attach a stock to it. Possessing that striped lower will give you plausible deniability against constructive possession, since you DO now legally possess something that a pistol length barreled upper COULD be used on. That’s something you couldn’t do if you only owned a rifle.
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,016
    Glenelg
    yup

    MOST AR owners who plan to go SBR first make the Lower (if you did the 77R as "other") a pistol with a pistol buffer and the <16" barrel
    Then apply for the stamp and while waiting operate it as a pistol.
    Then when the stamp comes in, finish it up as an SBR.

    You can apply for the SBR stamp once you get the serial # of the Lower.
    You can at any time after getting your lower, assemble it as a pistol and operate, use, store, transport as a Pistol
    as mentioned, if you own the barrel, you would be BEST off if you have something that IS currently, or is un assembled but can turn into a pistol
    Remember, you can make a lower a pistol, then a rifle, but if you were to assemble a lower into a rifle first, you can't turn into a pistol. You can turn into SBR, yes though but not pistol

    ^^^^^

    This. Once you have a pistol and you put a stock on, it will become an SBR and will need a stamp. Illegal to have/use until the NFA comes through. If you want to make the short barrel be used as a rifle, then yes, pin and weld the flash hider on it to make it the proper length. Done
     

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