HECS Hunting Clothing: Cheating or No

Occam said:

Meh. This is right up there with socks that have copper in them. Marketing gimmick.

EM radiation falls off at the square of the distance. By the time another mammal roughly your size is in a position - even with a very sophisticated antenna array and some fancy hardware - to measure anything in the way you reflect, emit, or modify the electromagnetic spectrum/field in a way that would give away your location... you'd be heard breathing and shifting your weight, seen visually, or smelled. Put it this way: if a deer could do it, we'd be using millions of dollars to develop human-flesh-EM-detecting tools for warfighters in the field. There's a reason, instead, that we use thermal imaging, ultrasonic devices, radar/lidar, and other devices/technologies. Put the money towards the costs of getting out in front of more deer and turkeys in better places more often, because that's what puts that tasty meat in the freezer.

Click to expand...

Lame...

Striper69 said:

They are just trying to make clothes to make hunting easier. They aren't trying to solve military problems.

Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point. What they're trying to do is sell clothing, and they're using a gimmicky pseudo-science pitch to try to differentiate their clothing from other manufacturer's products. The underlying claim (about deer being able to sense some sort of EM field/radiation from a hunter at a distance, and their product blocking it) is pretty much silly on the face of it.

If there actually were such an effect, being able to work with it and mitigate it would be of keen interest to people with WAY more money to spend (hence the military reference) ... but the military has no such tools for its soldiers, and no such capability (to sense this supposed EM field/radiation on the part of enemy combatants). If there were anything to the hunting product manufacturer's claims, you'd be seeing wild amounts of money and attention being spent on it in other circles. Which isn't happening. Hence, it's a sales gimmick aimed at hunters.

Striper69 said:

Your post doesn't make sense.

They are just trying to make clothes to make hunting easier. They aren't trying to solve military problems.

Click to expand...

What I'm saying is: if this was a real thing, i.e. people gave off a detectable field strength, then it would have huge military and economic implications that would dwarf selling hunting clothing. The fact that this company, or any other, are not developing the technology for the more lucrative military market ought to tell you something about its feasibility.

That's what I tried to say above. But to that I'd add: the national security / defense implications alone, divorced from the economics, would have caused DARPA first then the BDU manufacturers to already have exploited the technology for our advantage.

Bull

Bunch of B.S. if you ask me. I've hunted in the same clothing for years. Had deer come in close never looked at me and if they do look at me they dont pay me no mind as if I'm not even there.

Electrical impulses? Are you hunting predator? I don't think deer and turkeys have electromagnetic sensors. Arnold just covered himself with mud.

K31 said:

Wrap yourself in aluminum foil under your camo. Same thing.

Click to expand...

Or just the hat.

onedash said:

...Arnold just covered himself with mud.

Click to expand...

I do this by accident sometimes.

Occam said:

Meh. This is right up there with socks that have copper in them. Marketing gimmick.

Click to expand...

Leave my copper-fit socks out of this!

I'll leave this here for consideration. I have had similar experiences. The theory is, the system does not make you invisible, merely inanimate. It isn't magic, nor is it purported to be.

https://www.bowhunting.net/2011/07/hecs-fact-or-myth/

aray said:

What I'm saying is: if this was a real thing, i.e. people gave off a detectable field strength, then it would have huge military and economic implications that would dwarf selling hunting clothing. The fact that this company, or any other, are not developing the technology for the more lucrative military market ought to tell you something about its feasibility.

That's what I tried to say above. But to that I'd add: the national security / defense implications alone, divorced from the economics, would have caused DARPA first then the BDU manufacturers to already have exploited the technology for our advantage.

Click to expand...

Maybe they're ahead of the curve, so to speak.

People can't sense anyone's magnetic/electrical fields anyway. Who knows what animals/deer are capable of doing. Look at how Striped Bass use their lateral lines to sense prey even in the dark.

I'll report if the suit doesn't work . I always do with anything I try out. Sometimes stuff seems to work but now and again it ends up not convincing me.

I have two spots where I can actually film myself hunting and we'll see what happens. The 2 spots are across a road from each other in 2 fields. One is on the south side and I'll hunt that with a south wind and the other I'll hunt with a north wind. Both fields have the same does at dusk on most days. They probably go there after dark every night.

I have a situation which may prove if this stuff really works.

I've been hunting on a hillside above a harvested cornfield with my back to some tall brush. At the bottom of the hill is a wood line and a buck has been coming out right at the end of shooting light on two of the three nights I've hunted there. I don't think it's a real big buck but the lighting is such that I can't really tell.

I'm thinking that I could sit right out in the middle of the cornfield downwind of where the buck has been coming out and if it still comes out and starts feeding then the stuff works as advertised.

The wind might be coming from the wrong direction tomorrow night but should change on one of the following nights. I'd love to get a closer look at him.

The only way that would serve as a test is if you took up your new position WITHOUT the new gear, and then did it again under the exact same circumstances with it ... and then repeated that test many times. With all of the uncontrollable variables at play, even that's poor science at best, and would mostly just leave you with anecdotal observations. Nothing about that test would confirm that 1) you have an animal-detectable-at-a-distance EM field/emission coming out of your body, 2) that the particular buck in question has such a capability and knows primate radiation when it sees/feels it, and 3) that the material in question would alter that experience in any way - as opposed to changes in a thousand other factors that might alter the buck's behavior (just walked an extra couple miles? dehydrated? humidity and air pressure are different? there's a doe over the next hill that you know nothing about ... you get the idea).

If I did it without the gear then the buck would probably not show up again for who knows how long.

Jeez! Some of the comments in this thread really amaze me. It's pathetic, as if some don't want it to work. They've already made up their minds. One of the main reasons I will not be back to MDS any time soon. Way too many armchair experts here. I've had my fill.

Nah, it’s not people not wanting it to work, it’s people not wanting to see the friendly folks here ripped off by snake oil sales pitches. That’s a GOOD thing.

There are way too many snake oil salesmen is all industries dealing with the public. Many people now want you to prove to them its needed, before they will believe the claims. UV is an easy argument to swallow, but an visible electric field that animals can see is quite a stretch. Indians used to kill them with wooden springs and stone points as close range and draw them in with stuffed decoy deer heads. Saxton Pope detailed how Ishi did it in view of deer.

You really shouldn't get so twisted up because you believe it and other do not. They only do not believe it because it has not been proven to them. From our perspective you are selling yourself as the expert on this working and you call us armchair quarterbacks doesn't help anything. That is the first rock of the argument. We would like to know WHY it works and HOW deer can see what we do not think they CAN see. Its a conversation of the facts, don't be so offended because you have not sold us yet.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything. You can believe what you want. I really couldn't care less. LOL!

I just find the concept interesting and want to see if it does, in fact...work.

If it doesn't I'll get my money back.

Well then, keep us posted. I'd rather watch you burn your money than trying it from my angle.

outrider58 said:

Jeez! Some of the comments in this thread really amaze me. It's pathetic, as if some don't want it to work. They've already made up their minds. One of the main reasons I will not be back to MDS any time soon. Way too many armchair experts here. I've had my fill.

Click to expand...

I DO want it to work, I really do, but I'm still kinda disappointed about Santa and the damned Easter Bunny... I'd love to see something like that, a real technological breakthrough, that actually DOES work, but it would take serious tangible proof for me to even think it was a good idea, let alone go buy one.

Aside from the manufacturer's claims, is there actually any serious, tangible proof that there is even a problem, let alone that this is the fix for it?

My own resistance to this is that inexperienced hunters, looking to buy success, are being misled as to the true effectiveness. If it even works at all...If there is even a problem to begin with. An inexperienced hunter would be FAR better off to spend more time afield, studying the animals and their habits, than to buy into the latest gimmick. I found deer quite mysterious for a long time, but as with any mystery, facts dispel our assumptions and we finally see exactly what IS happening. Deer are simply cattle that live in the woods...no more, no less. To elevate and mystify them, create a problem, then market a solution is just good business.

Sure, the theory and fact is that we all run on electromechanical systems and that some of this electrical energy radiates, possibly even enough to be detected with sensitive equipment. The Faraday Cage theory is also valid, but does it apply here? Is either one, or even both together, enough to justify buying a suit? I guess that with the right marketing team, it most certainly does!! The practice is that, as pointed out above, our own "aura" is probably less radiation than that found in open air. If I take my oscilloscope and touch the probe to a piece of loose, ungrounded metal, I get about as much signal as I do when I touch my own skin. Oddly enough, the signals resemble each other and if I turn the lights out, both of them drop to almost nothing. From this, it would appear that we are both acting as antennas for ambient electromagnetic radiation.

Then, using my own deer hunting experience as a litmus test, I cannot recall even one instance in which a deer showed signs of being spooked by anything except hearing, seeing or scenting me. There was never any sign of supernatural intervention, nor any sign of the deer noticing anything that I myself could not notice too. if I moved, they saw me and spooked, if the wind changed, they smelled me and spooked, if I made unnatural noises, they heard me and spooked. No real mystery, IMO.

I quit smoking about 20 years ago, but as many times as I had to put down a cigarette to shoot a deer in the 30 years prior to that, including my personal best, I don't feel a big need to buy a scent suit either. Many deer, including the biggest one I've taken, were within bow range for what seemed to be a very long time before I got a good shot. None ever showed signs of feeling my aura, even after looking directly at my camouflaged form.

Deer have very good defenses, and can sometimes pick up on the smallest sound or movement. They are usually/often found loitering in areas where the wind swirls. I can see where one might IMAGINE that the deer knew they were there by some unknown mechanism, but would further suggest that there was a good and tangible reason they spooked.

Under good (sight/scent/sound) conditions, I have been within touching distance of deer on the ground and my own (ever weakening) electrical aura did not spook them. I have shot many deer right under my stands and they were within 15 feet. Having an effective range of at least 25 yards with my stick bow, I would suggest that getting shots within 15 feet would illustrate my reasons for a lack of excitement over solving a problem that I see no proof of even existing.

Let me reiterate that concept as a method of demonstrating my own skecticism: This most recent breakthrough purports to be THE cure for a problem that is not even proved to exist.

As a parallel example, UV light is reflected by clothing, even camo clothing, in an unnatural way. Night vision made us aware of this and provides proof. Many animals experience the spectrum of light in ways differing from humans. It had been documented that deer, among other animals, are sensitive to portions of the UV spectrum and using a "UV Killer" on clothing helps to hide this UV signature. This is provable, and proven, so I'm down with it and would welcome a way to reduce my own UV reflection. I don't buy chemicals to do this, but I do avoid laundry treatments that might contain UV brighteners that increase UV reflectivity in what we perceive in a positive way (whiter whites, brighter colors).

As I had said above: if you THINK it works, buy two and be happy.

Striper69 said:

...I just find the concept interesting and want to see if it does, in fact...work.

If it doesn't I'll get my money back.

Click to expand...

If one cannot prove that is DOES work, how would one prove that it doesn't ?

Having electronics training, work experience in both radar, radio and electrical production equipment and holding both commercial and amateur radio licenses and being an active hobbyist, I'm quite certain the basic premise "works". Proof exists that if one surrounds an electromagnetic field with a Faraday cage, it will reduce emissions. Whether this has any effect on the game, whether due to the effectiveness of the suit or a lack of sufficient emissions to begin with, is a whole 'nuther story.

I guess a corollary question would be that, if one wears The Suit, will one still have the "feeling" that a deer is close by?

Reason why I like hunting along power lines.. hides my emc. (Electro magnetic charm)