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Old September 13th, 2021, 04:42 PM #1
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9mm loads

Took the Springfield 9mm Loaded Target I built with a heavy barrel to the range to test a couple different loads. I have had some of the Winchester Active Duty and was wondering about its performance and thiught maybe other members were also.

Nothing earth shattering though I did shoot 20 rounds of the Winchester Active Duty ammo. This is the military load for the DHS, 115 grain TCFP at 1320 fps. It is a beast of a lighter bullet 9mm load though it won’t hurt the shooter. If I were to shoot a steady supply of this load I would tune the pistol to slow the slide velocity.

The other load was the MaxxTech 115 grain FMJ at 1145 fps.

Anyway, three pics of two targets. The left side target is shot with 3 magazines of 8 rounds MaxxTech. The right shot with 2 mags of 6 rounds then 1 mag of 8 rounds.

Distance was 28 yards, standing, 6 o’clock hold on the bull. Shots were called. Of course, there were called fliers but the Active Duty shot closer to the called sight picture.

Targets are in order of composite shooting, i.e., pic one is first mag, pic two is two mags and pic 3 is 3 mags shot on target.

The reader may interpret the targets for themselves.
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Old September 14th, 2021, 10:08 AM #2
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Why would you test self defense ammo at 28 yards? I guarantee if you brought them all in to 15 or 10 and shot slower, they would all be comparable. The farther the target the greater your shooting errors get. At least get a baseline at a closer distance before you go all the way out there.

What is a 6 O'clock hold on the bull? Your point of aim is at the bottom of the orange center bullseye? Why wouldn't you have that front sight cover the whole dot?
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Old September 14th, 2021, 03:43 PM #3
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I like having an accurate idea of what the pistol and ammo can do. Just me, I am proficient with a handgun. I consider myself more a marksman and have shot competitively out to 200 meters. So I like knowing what the system is capable of…then itis just me in which I need to concern myself. I rebarreled this pistol because I didn’t care for the fliers using the 115 grain blasting grade ammo. That ammo is notorious for being accuracy indifferent but the first 9mm I built proved it could shoot well in a well built pistol.

6 o’clock hold (top of sights on bottom of the black bullseye) allows for more precise aiming. Additionally for me, the trajectories moving from close to farther out allow to see some of what I am aiming at using this sight adjustment. I cut my handgun shooting teeth with this sight picture and sometimes I get conflicting messages when going to another hold.

With this adjustment anything close and practical size is muzzle just about on center. At bowling pin distance, 7-8 yards, impact is about 1/2” to 1” high depending oncaliber and velocity. Beyond that, holding near bottom gets me hits.
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Old September 14th, 2021, 08:14 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnumite View Post
I like having an accurate idea of what the pistol and ammo can do. Just me, I am proficient with a handgun. I consider myself more a marksman and have shot competitively out to 200 meters. So I like knowing what the system is capable of…then itis just me in which I need to concern myself. I rebarreled this pistol because I didn’t care for the fliers using the 115 grain blasting grade ammo. That ammo is notorious for being accuracy indifferent but the first 9mm I built proved it could shoot well in a well built pistol.

6 o’clock hold (top of sights on bottom of the black bullseye) allows for more precise aiming.
Additionally for me, the trajectories moving from close to farther out allow to see some of what
I am aiming at using this sight adjustment. I cut my handgun shooting teeth with this sight
picture and sometimes I get conflicting messages when going to another hold.

With this adjustment anything close and practical size is muzzle just about on center. At bowling
pin distance, 7-8 yards, impact is about 1/2” to 1” high depending oncaliber and velocity. Beyond
that, holding near bottom gets me hits.
Basically my sight picture old school and how I was taught. The only thing I look at first is the groups
do they go Vertical, breathing, trigger control, sight picture, do I come on target then pull the trigger,
or do I settle in the target, grip, etc. If the groups are low / high / etc. as long as they were groups, not
looking like shotgun shot the target..

Pins which haven't shot in a while, have a "pin" gun was always hold close to the bottom, and hit the "fat"
portion, to just knock em back and off, used the old Speer "200gr. Flying Ashtrays" did the job, then H&G 68's,
The old Hardballer did good also, the Long Slide was great but cause of the length messed with me some times.
friend of mine could punch the centers out of targets / knock pins off the table with my own 45's then give them
back, then say quite frankly the guns not the problem you are...

-Rock
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Last edited by Rockzilla; September 14th, 2021 at 09:40 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 01:30 AM #5
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Much of your experience parallels mine. I asked a guy waaaayy back to shoot my pistol to make sure it was accurate. At 15 yards he shot my Security Six single action once around the cylinder. He pulled the target back and had stacked up bullet hole on bullet hole. He said, “Its accurate”. I responded, “Guess I’m not”.

I shot bullseye with that Security Six revolver and a Ruger MkII pistol in a local range league. The real Mike Mitchell used to shoot in the same league. He built pistols (1911’s) and used them in league matches to final prove them. That man was a shooting machine. Anyway, after getting to know him some I asked him the best way I could improve. He said first get a good spotting scope and call your shots. Then he said get this book and read it cover to cover. The book was the “The Pistol Shooter’s Treasury”. I use binoculars many times now. Same basics still apply.
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Old Yesterday, 12:37 PM #6
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sounds right, my friend was a machinist with Fairchild in Germantown,
made them little parts and a perfectionist, didn't say much, built some
45's back in the day, call all the shots is what he would say. A spotting
scope would come in handy...anyway he was my "Ransom Rest"

then got into hi-power, would basically shoot at the Linganore
Rifle range, Colonel Bartgis, would run me through it all, a
ole match M1A he had warmed over for me. which I still have,
he would load my clips and put a dummy round in here and there.
Made me call my shots, spotting scope a must. One hard nosed
person. Another guy he knew is who also taught me how to shoot
45's, sight picture, grip, etc. then my friend Joe...Once again "it ain't the
gun it's you"...where did you aim, did you pull it on and on. and of
course how much "Coffee" did you drink..all l..o..n..g ago..

-Rock
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Old Yesterday, 01:10 PM #7
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6 o’clock hold? Is that like making a lollipop picture and the sight is right on the bottom of bullseye (as the stem of the lollipop)?
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Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigander08 View Post
6 o’clock hold? Is that like making a lollipop picture and the sight is right on the bottom of bullseye (as the stem of the lollipop)?

https://reddotshooters.com/combat-sight-picture/
https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...lock-hold-work

Name:  6-o-clock hold.jpg
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Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM #9
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^ +1

Rock, tell me about the caffeine! Talk about the shakes!
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Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM #10
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Did you chrono those? or were they the velocity specs on the box? pretty much the only time I shoot a target is to sight in, or check for problems or improvements on new parts. I have competed for a long time and can shoot well enough, but even so it's tough to see an MOA change or small group shift with a handgun, and often times it doesn't really matter anyway, more of a "pass fail" thing. I will chrono loads, mostly to make sure I meet PF, but for accuracy or groups, I use a 1" orange sticker in the middle of a 1" square grid, shoot a group from a rest at 25, and shoot another standing at 15. Sometimes the various colors or big bullseye make it harder to place shots consistently.
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