School me on binary triggers.

TinCuda · Mar 23, 2018

There is another option. I do not recommend it but it is about half the price. You get about half the trigger too.

The Double Tap trigger works similar to the Franklin Binary except there is no single fire selector position. It only has safe, and "pull-release" fire positions. No "pull fire only" or normal position.

It is very dangerous if the shooter is unaware of the selector positions.

The advantage of this trigger is it is only $200.

I do not own one but if you want to be fully informed, I felt I had to at least mention it.

.,

Straightbolt · Mar 24, 2018

I like my Fostec Echo II and it's fun to shoot.
Soon I plan to swap uppers and try it with my 7.62x39 upper

Engine4 · Mar 24, 2018

clandestine said:
IMO, Franklin is to be avoided. Fostec Echo II is the one to get. Binary Triggers withour a safety sear are dangerous (Franklin), using one in a blowback is tempting fate.

Chad, I'm glad you chimed in, I value your judgement. Can you explain how the Franklin is different then the Fostech & how using one in a blowback is to be avoided?

AlanInSilverSpring · Mar 24, 2018

Engine4 said:
Chad, I'm glad you chimed in, I value your judgement. Can you explain how the Franklin is different then the Fostech & how using one in a blowback is to be avoided?

I went over this with Chad a while back. Maybe I can save him some typing by pasting part of our conversation here.......

ME -
Wanted to let you know I appreciate you taking the time to go over the issue several times with me. I think I'm having trouble with the concept because I don't really understand the mechanics of how the whole firing process works. I'm trying though.

To simplify it in my head I'm looking at it from the perspective of a double action revolver where the cylinder/hammer/trigger are all connected and work together to be timed to have the hammer fall only after the cylinder is in the correct position. But if you were to install a trigger (like the binary) that acted independently, unless it had a safety to prevent it you could get out of sync and drop the hammer before the cylinder was in position.

Please lmk if I'm not on the right track.

CHAD -
That is a good analogy. A revolver has to be timed right to fire and if timing is off they can misfire and shave projectiles.

If it were possible to a cyinder to fire and wasnt in the 12oclock position, it would be bad and that is what binary triggers without a safety sear allow on blocback AR's. The Franklin has no safety sear. The cho does.

In order for the echo to work properly with the safety sear you have to have an M16 compatible bolt carrier.

This is a pretty technical topic, but I try to mention it because it can be a damgerous one if one is not aware of the risks in certain designs.

Engine4 · Mar 24, 2018

Thank you! So, the safety sear allows the bcg to stay in time?

rob-cubed · Mar 24, 2018

AlanInSilverSpring said:
I went over this with Chad a while back. Maybe I can save him some typing by pasting part of our conversation here.......

CHAD -
In order for the echo to work properly with the safety sear you have to have an M16 compatible bolt carrier.

Interesting, did not know that.

So without the proper carrier it's not much different than the Franklin in terms of safety?

5.56blaster · Mar 24, 2018

I have both and they are really, really stupid fun!

Doctor_M · Mar 24, 2018

Guess if I get an Echo I'll need to buy another BCG... just checked both of my ARs and they are not M16 BCGs. In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess.

lee2 · Mar 25, 2018

doesnt the echo need the lower shelf in the receiver milled out?
the franklin doesnt.

md_al · Mar 26, 2018

lee2 said:
doesnt the echo need the lower shelf in the receiver milled out?
the franklin doesnt.

Gen 2 triggers no longer ship with the proprietary bolt carrier.
The part below is for those who bought the original echo trigger.

https://fostech.us/accessories/echo-ar-ii-trigger-accessories/fostech-echo-trigger-lock.html

The Echo trigger lock is a replacement trigger lock for the Original Echo Triggers. This trigger lock will allow the original Echo Triggers to be able to be used with a standard AR-15 full auto carrier. The original Echo triggers required a proprietary bolt carrier group.
$25 + shipping

If running a 22 bolt on a Fostech you will need this:
https://fostech.us/accessories/echo...p-kit-for-cmmg-22-conversions-and-uppers.html
-not needed on a Franklin Binary trigger for it to work.

lee2 · Mar 26, 2018

md_al said:
Gen 2 triggers no longer ship with the proprietary bolt carrier.
The part below is for those who bought the original echo trigger.

https://fostech.us/accessories/echo-ar-ii-trigger-accessories/fostech-echo-trigger-lock.html

The Echo trigger lock is a replacement trigger lock for the Original Echo Triggers. This trigger lock will allow the original Echo Triggers to be able to be used with a standard AR-15 full auto carrier. The original Echo triggers required a proprietary bolt carrier group.
$25 + shipping

If running a 22 bolt on a Fostech you will need this:
https://fostech.us/accessories/echo...p-kit-for-cmmg-22-conversions-and-uppers.html
-not needed on a Franklin Binary trigger for it to work.

im talking about the area behind the trigger in the receiver.

Boss94 · Mar 27, 2018

Lee from what I can remember. No it doesn't need any additional machining. It didn't on the 1st I installed for my friends.

clandestine · Mar 27, 2018

The only lower that I'm aware of that have an issue with the Echo 2 are Colt Lowers. This includes the ones with the steel sear block, and the newer ones with the aluminum webb that runs across the sea area

Engine4 · Mar 27, 2018

How much strain does using a binary trigger put on a regular AR? I figure it'll probably burn out the barrel eventually, right?

clandestine · Mar 27, 2018

Engine4 said:
How much strain does using a binary trigger put on a regular AR? I figure it'll probably burn out the barrel eventually, right?

They eat up cheap bolts and extractors, especially extractors.

Barrels tend to erode faster in the throat when used in a binary equipped gun. A good hammer forged and chrome lined barrel is best for this application.

Engine4 · Mar 27, 2018

Thanks Chad!

yakfish · Mar 30, 2018

Engine4 said:
How much strain does using a binary trigger put on a regular AR? I figure it'll probably burn out the barrel eventually, right?

It's the same number of rounds either way.

Engine4 · Mar 31, 2018

Does the lack of a forward assist affect using a binary trigger?

ToolAA · Mar 31, 2018

lee2 said:
im talking about the area behind the trigger in the receiver.

Lee I have the Echo Gen 1 in an 80% lower that I machined myself. I did not mill out the deep pocket behind the FCG and mine works fine.

TinCuda · Apr 1, 2018

Engine4 said:
Does the lack of a forward assist affect using a binary trigger?

No more than any other AR15 rifle. You should not ever NEED to use the forward assist.

.,

School me on binary triggers.

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