Maryland Rising

solarpower44 · Feb 2, 2020

Actual comparison cases

West Germany vs East Germany
South Korea vs North Korea

Any doubts!?

moose&squirrel · Feb 2, 2020

The countries with the highest quality of life, including broad access to food, housing, quality education and health care, job security, political stability, environmental quality, et cetera:

Canada
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Australia
Netherlands
Switzerland
New Zealand
Finland
Germany

The United States ranks 15th...

There are many such sites with similar cites. This one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

buellsfurn · Feb 2, 2020

whistlersmother said:
If the Pilgrims couldn't make it work, how can any one make it work?

https://www.hoover.org/research/how-private-property-saved-pilgrims

While there might be private ownership under socialism, the harder one works, the more the state takes to give to those who won't work.

There is no incentive for people to work hard if their work is confiscated by usury like taxes.

“nothing can be public where nothing is private.”

Pale Ryder · Feb 2, 2020

JerseyMike said:
I’m always surprised when this completely inaccurate characterization of socialism is parroted in different forms, although it is almost always framed as some dumb classroom lesson that never actually happened.

Oh that's right, they didn't
incarcerate or kill any dissidents in the story.

danb · Feb 2, 2020

moose&squirrel said:
The countries with the highest quality of life, including broad access to food, housing, quality education and health care, job security, political stability, environmental quality, et cetera:

Canada
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Australia
Netherlands
Switzerland
New Zealand
Finland
Germany

The United States ranks 15th...

There are many such sites with similar cites. This one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

Also, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Japan vs China.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 2, 2020

Ok Jersey Mike , we're into Free Speech and open debate of ideas . Don't just tell us we are incorrectly interpeting Socialism , enlighten all us ( mostly ) conservatives and libertarians .

Give us a 7 - 10 paragraph explaination of how socialism positively works in real world , and we can then freely and openly chew on it . ( Not sarcasm , give it a good shot .)

danb · Feb 2, 2020

Biggfoot44 said:
Ok Jersey Mike , we're into Free Speech and open debate of ideas . Don't just tell us we are incorrectly interpeting Socialism , enlighten all us ( mostly ) conservatives and libertarians .

Give us a 7 - 10 paragraph explaination of how socialism positively works in real world , and we can then freely and openly chew on it . ( Not sarcasm , give it a good shot .)

tl:dr

Maybe start with 3 sentences

Qbeam · Feb 2, 2020

moose&squirrel said:
The countries with the highest quality of life, including broad access to food, housing, quality education and health care, job security, political stability, environmental quality, et cetera:

Canada
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Australia
Netherlands
Switzerland
New Zealand
Finland
Germany

The United States ranks 15th...

There are many such sites with similar cites. This one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

I am a little tired, are all those countries socialist, or do they have socialized medical programs, and other "group" plans?

Q

BeoBill · Feb 2, 2020

moose&squirrel said:
The countries with the highest quality of life, including broad access to food, housing, quality education and health care, job security, political stability, environmental quality, et cetera:

Canada
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Australia
Netherlands
Switzerland
New Zealand
Finland
Germany

The United States ranks 15th...

There are many such sites with similar cites. This one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

Now do income tax rates.

Tungsten · Feb 2, 2020

moose&squirrel said:
The countries with the highest quality of life, including broad access to food, housing, quality education and health care, job security, political stability, environmental quality, et cetera:

Canada
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Australia
Netherlands
Switzerland
New Zealand
Finland
Germany

How can a country rank high in quality of life when it is one of the rape capitals of the world?

Occam · Feb 2, 2020

That laundry list of “socialist” counties is actually a list of countries powered by a market economy and private enterprise, and heavily burdened with very high taxes. And every one of them have been dialing back the huge entitlement programs because they’re unsustainable, especially as they become awash with unemployable migrants that they’re slowly learning to block/mitigate.

That list demonstrates the horsepower of capitalism, even when it’s being dragged down by confiscatory tax policies sucking up all the oxygen. Those entitlement programs already have chunks missing from their inception, and are on a glide path towards fundamental reform in the face of bankruptcy. They’re not a guide for us, they’re a cautionary tale. The local Dems are blind to the lessons.

Steve_Zissou · Feb 2, 2020

danb said:
Huh, what? This is an easily repeatable experiment and works every time. My daughter has already experienced this in middle school.

Socialism fails by destroying incentives. Fails every time, and will keep failing. Capitalism is based on natural selection and evolution, which has 4 billion years of proven biology behind it.

Socialism fails in fragmented heterogeneous societies where the average individual feels a minimal sense of kinship or shared values, culture, and identity with their average countrymen. But it doesn't fail because of the fact that it's "socialism", it fails because of the fundamentally flawed and unsustainable societies that practice it. In a nation as heterogeneous as the US is now, democracy only ensures that the inevitable failure will occur in a slower and more drawn out fashion.

Now, take a country with a homogenous and fundamentally productive population, with the strong sense of shared identity and obligation to ones fellow countrymen that comes with those things, and socialism can function beautifully. Places like Japan or Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Finland, and Sweden (pre-immigration) all prove this beyond any reasonable doubt.

Ideology is secondary to demography.

danb · Feb 2, 2020

Steve_Zissou said:
Socialism fails in fragmented heterogeneous societies where the average individual feels a minimal sense of kinship or shared values, culture, and identity with their average countrymen. But it doesn't fail because of the fact that it's "socialism", it fails because of the fundamentally flawed and unsustainable societies that practice it. In a nation as heterogeneous as the US is now, democracy only ensures that the inevitable failure will occur in a slower and more drawn out fashion.

Now, take a country with a homogenous and fundamentally productive population, with the strong sense of shared identity and obligation to ones fellow countrymen that comes with those things, and socialism can function beautifully. Places like Japan or Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Finland, and Sweden (pre-immigration) all prove this beyond any reasonable doubt.

Ideology is secondary to demography.

None of those countries are actually socialist, and if you think so you dont know what socialism is.

Steve_Zissou · Feb 2, 2020

danb said:
None of those countries are actually socialist, and if you think so you dont know what socialism is.

This is like some backwards perversion of the tired "REAL communism hasn't been tried yet!" meme. If they consider themselves to be socialist, I'm going to take them by their word, not mine.

outrider58 · Feb 2, 2020

Steve_Zissou said:
Steve_Zissou said:

Socialism fails in fragmented heterogeneous societies where the average individual feels a minimal sense of kinship or shared values, culture, and identity with their average countrymen. But it doesn't fail because of the fact that it's "socialism", it fails because of the fundamentally flawed and unsustainable societies that practice it. In a nation as heterogeneous as the US is now, democracy only ensures that the inevitable failure will occur in a slower and more drawn out fashion.

Click to expand...

You wouldn't happen to have next week's lottery numbers by any chance, would ya?

Now, take a country with a homogenous and fundamentally productive population, with the strong sense of shared identity and obligation to ones fellow countrymen that comes with those things, and socialism can function beautifully. Places like Japan or Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Finland, and Sweden (pre-immigration), and Russia, and Yugoslavia, and Poland? all prove this beyond any reasonable doubt.

Ideology is secondary to demography.

Click to expand...

Huh???

danb · Feb 2, 2020

Steve_Zissou said:
This is like some backwards perversion of the tired "REAL communism hasn't been tried yet!" meme. If they consider themselves to be socialist, I'm going to take them by their word, not mine.

Have you actually been to Europe and done business there? No. They have private property, a market economy, and small businesses just like here. When I lived in London I saw a private doctor and paid cash. egads! France, Greece, and Spain have private labor markets (shock!).

The Danish PM said they are not socialist, as if that means anything: https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Contrary to the media reports, European countries have private health care markets. Spain (often considered the most socialist in Europe) has private electricity and gas distribution: as do most of the countries in Europe. These are just examples. I could go on.

Oh, and that Imported Belgian beer giving you a buzz and causing you to post dumb stuff on the internet is also made by a private for profit company.

So, no. not socialist. Not even close.

Alan3413 · Feb 2, 2020

moose&squirrel said:
The countries with the highest quality of life, including broad access to food, housing, quality education and health care, job security, political stability, environmental quality, et cetera:

Canada
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Australia
Netherlands
Switzerland
New Zealand
Finland
Germany

The United States ranks 15th...

There are many such sites with similar cites. This one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

China, with it's political suppression, corruption, pollution, and absymal public health is #19?

Not buying it.

Glaron · Feb 2, 2020

moose guy said:
Also, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Japan vs China.

Sweden has a terrorist bombing every 18 hours and is the rape capital of Europe.

You getting stats from 1980?

PowPow · Feb 2, 2020

I visited the USSR in college for a month in 1986. That was a totalitarian socialist/marxist/stalinist/leninist country. North Korea and Venezuela are very similar, but more dictatorship qualities than the USSR. The government had/has ownership of the means of production and complete control over all economic activity. However, they are famous for their black markets! China is socialist, but they've given some freedom to a select few to create successful enterprises. Some call it state capitalism. However, what the state giveth or alloweth, the state may and does taketh away. And, what means of production they didn't allow freedom with, they own or lease. In the end, it's also a totalitarian state.

Countries like Canada, France, UK, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Germany, Finland, Switzerland, Japan, and the like are not socialist countries in that same mold. None of them to my knowledge have handed over ownership/control of the means of production to the government or "community" - at least not in the same way. They also enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in a totalitarian state. But, they have allowed the public sector to be involved in healthcare and social safety nets. Their citizenry have a tendency to look to the state for help, so we'll just call them statist. But, socialist? Uh, I would heavily caveat that.

EDIT: Socialism is evil.

RoadDawg · Feb 2, 2020

Anyone who believes and/or defends the notion that socialism is viable as a means of creating success in this country... or any other country in this world...

Get in front of the rush and turn all of your guns in now.

And while you're at it... empty your bank accounts and distribute all of your wealth to the homeless... PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR ASS IS.

Maryland Rising

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Active Member

Banned

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

dont be a dumbass

Ultimate Member

dont be a dumbass

Ultimate Member

Crank in the Third Row

Ultimate Member

Not Even ONE Indictment

Ultimate Member

dont be a dumbass

Ultimate Member

Eats Bacon Raw

dont be a dumbass

Ultimate Member

Camp pureblood 13R

Where's the beef?

Nos nostraque Deo

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics