Expectation of Reliability

Vile Shadow · Feb 6, 2015

clandestine said:
Get new recoil springs, Mag springs if available for the CZ, hammer springs, and extractor springs.

also what kind of ammo?

That might be what's going on with my Hardballer. That and polishing the ramps might do it. I get FTF's with FMJ ammo.

clandestine · Feb 6, 2015

JamesH said:
I have a lot of FTE trouble with my modern 9mm pistol when using WWB. I'd try other ammo, and also some new springs. The WWB might just be too light a load for your P1.

Same here. Thatsbwhy I asked about ammo. IMO some of the worst brass cased ammo is wwb and pmc.

Jimbob2.0 · Feb 7, 2015

It happens, don't expect a C&R gun to be a Glock (and I have had many FTE's in a glock! ) they often need some patience and tweaking to get to 100%.

Generally I go over them, clean, appropriately lube (not overlube) and replace the recoil springs with standard weight.

Beyond that, the issue is often ammo. To light or too hot.

amoebicmagician · Feb 7, 2015

follow chad's advice.

As for the the P1 you can probably get it worked out by replacing the springs by going to wolff.

Remember it ejects to the left, and check to see how the extractor is working just hand cycling rounds or snap caps. As long as it's not chewed up new springs can rejuvenate a gun like that.

I had a P1 that had some pitting in the chamber that was making brass stick. I polished it with a bit of jewelers rouge on a felt dremel attachment careful not to remove any more material than neccessary- and with jewelers rouge it is damn near impossible to remove steel without some hard effort.

anyways, it works great now. Not only are cases not sticking in the chamber any more, but the gun was having a problem chambering brass intermittently as the nose of the bullet would grind against the pitting in the chamber roof, causing the friction to grind everything to a stop and cause a failure to feed. That problem was solved at the same time.

So smooth.

amoebicmagician · Feb 7, 2015

Jimbob2.0 said:
It happens, don't expect a C&R gun to be a Glock (and I have had many FTE's in a glock! ) they often need some patience and tweaking to get to 100%.

Generally I go over them, clean, appropriately lube (not overlube) and replace the recoil springs with standard weight.

Beyond that, the issue is often ammo. To light or too hot.

my military c&rs are among my most reliable pistols

never had a problem with any of my makarovs, p64s, cz-82s, tokarevs in 7.62x25 (9mm is another story), or a few others. I mean of all the ones I own that I;ve mentioned literally NO problems.

They were built to be relied upon for survival

Machodoc · Feb 7, 2015

Jimbob2.0 said:
It happens, don't expect a C&R gun to be a Glock (and I have had many FTE's in a glock! ) they often need some patience and tweaking to get to 100%.

Generally I go over them, clean, appropriately lube (not overlube) and replace the recoil springs with standard weight.

Beyond that, the issue is often ammo. To light or too hot.

Maybe you should have said, "Don't expect a C$R gun to be a Sig P226! :innocent0

All teasing about your Glock aside, this is excellent advice.

protegeV · Feb 7, 2015

Just for the record, a P1 is the same as a p38 right?

Im looking here but it doesn't say anything about a p1.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/WALTHER/P-38, P-5, P-5 COMPACT/cID1/mID70/dID306

Also, I can't find anything but mag springs for the cz50 :shrug:

clandestine · Feb 7, 2015

protegeV said:
Just for the record, a P1 is the same as a p38 right?

Im looking here but it doesn't say anything about a p1.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/WALTHER/P-38, P-5, P-5 COMPACT/cID1/mID70/dID306

Also, I can't find anything but mag springs for the cz50

Yes p38 springs are the same. Can't help about the CZ though.

fred333 · Feb 7, 2015

As most here already know, FtFs tend to be magazine- or ammo-related. I've also found that disassembling, cleaning and oiling the mag's internals have eliminated most of the (non-ammo-related) FtFs I've experienced to date.

In fact, upon receipt, after function-checking a gun, I disassemble, clean and replace all easily removable/replaceable springs before the first test shoot. I'm sure that also helps.

I think you can get a pretty good idea of a magazine's function simply by pressing the follower down into the magazine and running it through to its maximum (fully-loaded) depth to see if it sticks, rubs or otherwise doesn't slide smoothly. If the follower sticks anywhere along its normal travel, presuming cleaning/lubing didn't eliminate the problem, check for small (or large) dings or dents in the magazine's walls, as the narrowed path's the next likely culprit.

protegeV · Feb 7, 2015

Thanks for the tip. I haven't ventured into anything further than a basic cleaning this far.

Rangeman · Feb 7, 2015

Yep, in my experience, if not a good cleaning, new springs, change ammo, or replace the mag. For the record, some of my 9mm's don't like WWB, but shoot perfectly with other brands...

protegeV · Feb 7, 2015

Rangeman said:
Yep, in my experience, if not a good cleaning, new springs, change ammo, or replace the mag. For the record, some of my 9mm's don't like WWB, but shoot perfectly with other brands...

All of my modern 9mm shoot wwb just fine so I thought nothing of it :shrug:

I ordered the springs. Any suggestions on ammo for the p1?

Threeband · Feb 8, 2015

I have a Russian Capture P38 that feeds and ejects WWB reliably, but fails to feed Remington ammo 2 or 3 rounds per magazine.

I lucked out with my CZ50. I've only put a couple hundred rounds through it, but it has been 100% reliable with PPU ammo. Supposedly they do not like American ammo: the extractor groove is narrower than the European stuff. Now I think your Herters is Czech, but you might try some PPU. AIM has Geco .32 right now, might be worth trying.

I'm a bit, shall we say, dubious about those people who enthusiastically use C&R guns for carry. Okay, some may check out reliable enough... yeah, sure. Okay. Maybe. Trust your sweet life to a worn-out old junker gun you got real cheap off the internet. Your life, your money, your choice.

To me, C&R guns are interesting range guns. Tupperware for carry, thank you.

amoebicmagician · Feb 8, 2015

fred333 said:
As most here already know, FtFs tend to be magazine- or ammo-related. I've also found that disassembling, cleaning and oiling the mag's internals have eliminated most of the (non-ammo-related) FtFs I've experienced to date.

In fact, upon receipt, after function-checking a gun, I disassemble, clean and replace all easily removable/replaceable springs before the first test shoot. I'm sure that also helps.

I think you can get a pretty good idea of a magazine's function simply by pressing the follower down into the magazine and running it through to its maximum (fully-loaded) depth to see if it sticks, rubs or otherwise doesn't slide smoothly. If the follower sticks anywhere along its normal travel, presuming cleaning/lubing didn't eliminate the problem, check for small (or large) dings or dents in the magazine's walls, as the narrowed path's the next likely culprit.

many mags can be remedied as you say by some cleaning, and I'll pass along a trick I learned from Chad:

Spray the insides of your mags with silicone spray.

I have found BLASTER to be the best, but there are two kinds, one that is 20% silicone, this is the one that works well, and one that is like 8% which still works but not as well.

Liquid wrench is better than the latter, and sprays in a light mist that covers everything in one spritz.

It leaves a dry film that really makes a difference. Metal wont bind as easily, and everything just moves a lot better, even on polymer mags

Rangeman · Feb 8, 2015

protegeV said:
All of my modern 9mm shoot wwb just fine so I thought nothing of it

I ordered the springs. Any suggestions on ammo for the p1?

I have two modern guns (both single action) that don't like WWB. At first, I thought it was a bad batch.
Before you install the new springs, try different ammo. My P1 has no issues, but is more accurate with 124 gr.
Did your gun come with a second mag? At this point, we don't know if it's ammo, mag, or spring related?
One of my Star B's jams sometimes. Most likely needs a new recoil spring.

somd_mustangs · Feb 10, 2015

Threeband said:
I have a Russian Capture P38 that feeds and ejects WWB reliably, but fails to feed Remington ammo 2 or 3 rounds per magazine.

Remington 9mm supposedly has a looser tolerance on overall length, which is what causes a lot of P1/P38 FTF issues.
The WWB OAL is less than or in tolerance to the original Parabellum round so it tends to feed more reliably.
I read that on the interwebs so it must be true.

I've shot several boxes of PMC 115gr FMJ thru a couple of mine (WW2 Spreewerk and 1980's P38) with no issues, but not enough to get a good statistical sample.

For magazines, always buy Walther factory mags (surplus, etc). The unmarked replacement mags tend to be thinner metal, and non-hardened.
The ones marked for either P1 or P.38 are identical and interchangeable; WW2 mags would work too but may have issues with weak springs and rust/damage. And they're expensive.

toolness1 · Feb 10, 2015

protegeV said:
Just for the record, a P1 is the same as a p38 right?

Im looking here but it doesn't say anything about a p1.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/WALTHER/P-38, P-5, P-5 COMPACT/cID1/mID70/dID306

Also, I can't find anything but mag springs for the cz50

This guy has a few of the CZ50/70 springs
https://www.buymilsurp.com/pistol-p...0-cz-70-pistol-c-3546_53.html?page=1&sort=20a

Numrich has some, too
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/CZ-33195/AutoPistols-35899/50-34926.htm?page=1

My CZ50 was shooting 2-3 round bursts on me from time to time. Changed the sear and sear spring and all is good now.

Edit: If you dive in and try to replace internal parts and springs, there's not a whole lot of info/pics online for doing so, any manuals you will find will leave you wanting, and unless someone recently uploaded one, there isn't a full detail strip video on Youtube. I took close-up high quality pics as I went, and used them to get it back together. It's not too bad, but you need to really pay attention how everything is situated.

Vile Shadow · Feb 10, 2015

amoebicmagician said:
I have found BLASTER to be the best, but there are two kinds, one that is 20% silicone, this is the one that works well, and one that is like 8% which still works but not as well.

You mean this?

Expectation of Reliability

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