weird happenings at the range today.

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  • jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I was out shooting the AR and with two shots I did this to the target. I am thinking the rounds tumbled but they were varmint tipped and I noticed grey residue at first I was thinking powder. What do you guys think. The shots were taken at 15 yards.
     

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    BradMacc82

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 17, 2011
    26,177
    Spun them faster then they could handle? Possibly came apart.

    Hand-load or factory load?

    Bullet weight and twist rate and barrel length? Chronograph reading for velocity?, if known.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    They were federal 50gr varmint rounds. Its a spikes upper IIRC it was a 1:7. 18 inch barrel
     

    MeatGrinder

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2013
    2,379
    MoCo, Eastern edge
    I see more than two holes in the paper. Were there multiple shots, but only two weird ones? Were there other shots from the same box or type of ammo? Did it sound funny/peculiar?

    I was thinking keyholing, but the residue confuses me.
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    I see more than two holes in the paper. Were there multiple shots, but only two weird ones? Were there other shots from the same box or type of ammo? Did it sound funny/peculiar?

    I was thinking keyholing, but the residue confuses me.

    Overcharged, maybe?
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    All the shots in the area are from the same two boxes but it was two shots that ripped that whole section out. Shots did not sound or feel funny. Part of me thinks the guy next to me was hip firing his gun and I know he wasn't hitting his target and my target was to the right and behind his.
     

    BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    It's a minibone target http://www.gunfun.com/shop/mini-bones-13890/

    So the bones aren't realistically sized. Never the less, few holes in the target are round. Is the target paper brittle?
    No explanation for the residue, but it pretty much has to be powder. I have not shot a 223 at 15 yards so don't know what would be normal for powder residue.
     

    diesel-man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 8, 2009
    1,348
    Maybe a little faster powder? What happens at 50 yards?
     

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    SKIP

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 5, 2009
    3,248
    Glenwood/Glenelg
    Varmint bullets have thin jackets and along with a tight twist and velocity they will disintegrate in air. Hence the gray residue. lead.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I don't know what we are looking at. Few holes in this target are actually round. Assuming the bones are realistically sized, the holes in the ribs and pelvis are huge.

    Mini bones target guess maybe 2/3 that of a real skeleton. I was shooting 9mm at the pelvis and ribs. The area of concern is the elbow area. When I saw it happen I was like wtf.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Varmint bullets have thin jackets and along with a tight twist and velocity they will disintegrate in air. Hence the gray residue. lead.

    That is what I was thinking also just never had happen before and didn't think paper would offer up enough resistance to do what it is advertised to do.
     

    BradMacc82

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 17, 2011
    26,177
    From my perspective, those 2 specific rounds appear to have broken up before they hit.

    Maybe they had flawed jackets, or a slight variation in powder charge - but that gray residue is lead. So somehow, someway - those rounds broke apart before impacting.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,159
    The 1 in 7 twist is over stressing thin jacketed varmint bullets.
    That bullet leaves the muzzle spinning at 342,000 RPM, to fast for a thin jacket.
    Do the math:
    1 turn in 7 inches is 1.714 turns in 1 foot.
    Times speed - Muzzle velocity 3325 Feet per second = revolutions per second.
    Times 60 seconds in a minute.
    Gets you Revolutions Per Minute.
     

    Lou45

    R.I.P.
    Jun 29, 2010
    12,048
    Carroll County
    They were federal 50gr varmint rounds. Its a spikes upper IIRC it was a 1:7. 18 inch barrel

    1 in 7 twist???

    From my perspective, those 2 specific rounds appear to have broken up before they hit.

    Maybe they had flawed jackets, or a slight variation in powder charge - but that gray residue is lead. So somehow, someway - those rounds broke apart before impacting.

    The 1 in 7 twist is over stressing thin jacketed varmint bullets.

    THESE ^^^^^.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I guess I will stay away from the varmint rounds from walmart. I bought them post panic thinking they were the 55 grn, same overall package same price lighter bullet.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    From my perspective, those 2 specific rounds appear to have broken up before they hit.

    Maybe they had flawed jackets, or a slight variation in powder charge - but that gray residue is lead. So somehow, someway - those rounds broke apart before impacting.

    I am thinking most started to come apart I think the two rounds in question were almost shot shells at that point.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    It's a minibone target http://www.gunfun.com/shop/mini-bones-13890/

    So the bones aren't realistically sized. Never the less, few holes in the target are round. Is the target paper brittle?
    No explanation for the residue, but it pretty much has to be powder. I have not shot a 223 at 15 yards so don't know what would be normal for powder residue.

    Paper felt fine all other rounds that went through didn't seem odd in how it punched the paper. Just these Varmint rounds, I was in awe when chunks fell out of the target after two rounds
     

    SKIP

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 5, 2009
    3,248
    Glenwood/Glenelg
    During a High Power match I used 45 grain varmint bullets in my new Colt H-bar. I don't shoot misses and after a lot of discussion a fellow scorer noticed a puff of smoke at 100 yards. The jackets were ripping a part.
     

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