NYC CCW case is at SCOTUS!

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Omg, the stupidity of the argument that the public must not be able to carry tools of self-defense when they are in areas of greater population. Areas of greater population will have a higher number of bad people per square mile.

    What happens at 3am when someone needs to travel outside in a part of Baltimore or NYC when the population density is still there, but many are sleeping inside of buildings versus walking around outside. It's no surprise that a number of robberies and assaults happen when there are less people that are visible.

    And the solicitor general arguing that law enforcement will protect people. Well then we would have zero robberies or assaults, right? Bad guys are smart enough to pick isolated targets when the police aren't there. Yes, the density of police might be greater in these areas, but there's no blanket saturation. Definitely not in Baltimore, and even not in NYC.

    Would this person would blithely walk outside in a dangerous part of town at a time when less people are present on the streets? Of course not. One, she has resources to live in safer areas. Second, she might not need to work or venture out at these times. So yes, she's safe. But those that she's working to deny the right of self-protection using a gun might not have these luxuries, might not be able to outrun the bad guys, and might not have the physical strength to defend themselves.
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    It is hard to believe that I read this about what Roberts said today:





    Is he arguing against permits?

    Sounded like it. There was another choice quote from him on carrying in cities vs the woods ...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/us/politics/supreme-court-guns-second-amendment.html

    The Second Amendment protects a constitutional right just as the First Amendment does, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. said. People seeking to exercise either of those rights, he said, should not have to demonstrate to the government that they have a good reason or special need to do so.

    “You don’t have to say, when you’re looking for a permit to speak on a street corner or whatever, that, you know, your speech is particularly important,” he said. “So why do you have to show in this case, convince somebody, that you’re entitled to exercise your Second Amendment right?”

    ...

    Barbara D. Underwood, New York’s solicitor general, told the court that limits on guns in sensitive places would not be a complete solution.

    ...

    She said that “unrestricted permits are more readily available in less populated areas,” setting off a discussion of where it is most valuable to have a gun for self-defense.

    “If the purpose of the Second Amendment is to allow people to protect themselves,” Chief Justice Roberts said, “that’s implicated when you’re in a high-crime area. It’s not implicated when you’re out in the woods.”

    Ms. Underwood said it made sense to allow guns where there is little law enforcement presence. The chief justice asked, “How many muggings take place in the forest?”

    Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. asked whether people who work late in Manhattan — “it might be somebody who cleans offices, it might be a doorman at an apartment, it might be a nurse or an orderly, it might be somebody who washes dishes” — would be granted a license if they said they had a dangerous commute through a high-crime area.

    “They do not get licenses, is that right?” Justice Alito asked.

    Ms. Underwood said that was generally correct. “The core right to self-defense,” she said, “doesn’t allow for all to be armed for all possible confrontations in all places.”

    i have to listen/read more about today's hearing because Roberts is probably (as others have said) seeking a path that would only be a narrow reassertion of 2A rights. However, at least in the above, he seems to be pointing out the absurdity in the may issue states and their permitting restrictions.
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,579
    Hazzard County
    It is hard to believe that I read this about what Roberts said today:





    Is he arguing against permits?

    attachment.php
     

    Attachments

    • crazy pills.jpg
      crazy pills.jpg
      12.1 KB · Views: 400

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Made the Fox News thumbnail when you search for "Supreme Court".

    The best part of the day was being in front of the SCOTUS listening to the oral arguments and hearing the justices refer to the Heller decision while Dick Heller himself was standing right next to me. Surreal.

    Good pic of one of our fairer sex PP/MDS members here:

    scotus-permit-rt-ps-211103_1635952983879_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

    From the Santa Rosa (CA) Press Democrat of all places.



    MM,

    one Fox article had the AP photographer pic in the story ...

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/su...-permit-new-york-lawrictive-ny-gun-permit-law

    as well as the WSJ ...

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/suprem...ates-concealed-weapons-permit-law-11635931800

    Stoveman,

    both of those pics are in this ABC article ...

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sup...ghts-dramatic-hour-argument/story?id=80945950

    Running across them as I read the different news summaries.
     

    JPG

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 5, 2012
    7,042
    Calvert County
    I think public transportation is a tough one. Given one of the justices gave the example of a late night worker taking public transportation home late at night. This is exactly the person that needs self protection.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    These place restrictions I have issue with. Say I get my mail at a PO Box, currently (Federal Law) I can't park or go into the building even though I have a CCW. Doesn't make any sense that I have to park off property and leave gun in car to get the mail everyday.

    Should be I should be allowed to carry everywhere at any time, period.
     

    adit

    ReMember
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 20, 2013
    19,655
    DE
    From SAF email:

    SAF PREDICTS RIGHT-TO-CARRY VICTORY AT SUPREME COURT


    BELLEVUE, WA – Following Wednesday morning’s oral arguments before the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, the Second Amendment Foundation predicts a victory for the right-to-carry a firearm in public for personal protection.

    “Based on questions from the Supreme Court Justices,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb, “I’m confident we’re going to win either on a 5-4 or 6-3 vote.”

    He said suggestions from New York Solicitor General Barbara D. Underwood and Deputy Solicitor General Brian H. Fletcher with the U.S. Justice Department—both defending New York’s restrictive “may issue” carry law—that the case be remanded back to the lower courts smacks of an attempted stall.

    “I think at that point the anti-gun rights justices as well as the attorneys for New York recognized they are not going to win,” Gottlieb observed, “and they were trying to forestall an unfavorable ruling. During the oral arguments several justices affirmed that the right to keep and bear arms does not stop at the front door.”

    “This important Supreme Court case,” he added, “was only made possible by SAF’s 2010 Supreme Court victory in McDonald v. City of Chicago, which incorporated the Second Amendment to the states via the 14th Amendment.”

    Presenting the oral argument for the plaintiffs, attorney Paul Clement told the court that the constitution protects carrying concealed firearms outside the home. He also said there should be no requirement for a citizen to prove a special need in order to exercise a constitutionally protected fundamental right. Questions and comments by several justices pointed out that many lower courts were not adhering to the Heller and McDonald decisions by the high court and not applying the proper heightened scrutiny levels that the Second Amendment deserves.

    SAF filed an amicus brief with the U.S. Supreme Court supporting the NYSR&PA case, which was joined by several other gun rights organizations.

    “After listening to the oral arguments,” Gottlieb said, “I’m convinced the ruling will impact the other seven states that do not recognize Second Amendment rights with their discretionary ‘may issue’ carry laws. I also think the court’s ruling should impact dozens of other cases SAF has filed that are currently in the lower federal courts.

    “An affirmative ruling, which we expect sometime in June 2022,” Gottlieb noted, “will only reinforce our mission to win back firearms freedom, one lawsuit at a time.”
     

    AliasNeo07

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2009
    6,559
    MD
    I don't understand why everyone is so surprised about what Robert's asked.

    He has always seemed a clever, dispassionate, logical, fair jurist.

    Very morbid question for those more knowledgeable about SCOTUS than I -- what if a justice dies after casting the his or her vote, but before the opinion is released? Would his or her vote still be counted?

    Anyway, I try not to be overly optimistic about things like this, but it really seems like this is a victory. I'm sure it will be a narrow victory, but a victory nonetheless. I already have a permit, but I think it is complete horse shit that I am able to have one because I own a business and not just because it is my right.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,921
    I think Roberts finds it hard to argue against the right to bear, insofar as a super-majority of these Unites States are either shall-issue or Constitutional carry, and the much-vaunted "streets running with blood" are conspicuous by their absence.

    I suspect that absent the obvious evidence of the sanity of nearly all citizens, he wouldn't have spoken so favorably. We owe those states a debt of gratitude for demonstrating that bearing arms is not the scary thing under the bed in the dark.
     
    Last edited:

    W2D

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 2, 2015
    2,075
    Escaped MD for FL
    Kagan’s sister?


    I had to web search for her to see her ‘real’ photo. Holy crap! That’s really her! Her photo does sort of agree with her court performance.

    And Fletcher! Droning on ‘history and tradition’ blah blah blah in every sentence. I didn’t follow his argument at all.

    I think it was Breyer - “We all know guns are dangerous” “shooting rabbits “. STFU.


    Sent from my iBunker using Tapatalk Pro
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Those that drafted the second amendment were of course well aware of previous attempts to control the ownership and transport of arms. For some reason, they added the words "shall not be infringed." How odd. It's as if they expected something based on history.
     

    Cal68

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 4, 2014
    1,999
    Montgomery County
    The best part of the day was being in front of the SCOTUS listening to the oral arguments and hearing the justices refer to the Heller decision while Dick Heller himself was standing right next to me. Surreal.

    Good pic of one of our fairer sex PP/MDS members here:

    scotus-permit-rt-ps-211103_1635952983879_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

    Thanks for being at SCOTUS and sharing all the photographs with us. Did you happen to take one of Heller? My guess is that he does not want his photograph to be posted since it may cause him to become a target for the lefties. I am sure it was an honor to meet him. A legend in the 2A world for sure.

    Cal68
     

    motorcoachdoug

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    How in the world did she end up being the Attorney General for NY??? Mabe Como before he had to ah "step down"had her appointed because she was not bright enough to figure out what the laws were in NY but if the law was explained to her then she would then get it.. Of course it goes without saying Como would tell her I am the Law and she would just follow that...
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,579
    Hazzard County
    I don't understand why everyone is so surprised about what Robert's asked.

    He has always seemed a clever, dispassionate, logical, fair jurist.

    Very morbid question for those more knowledgeable about SCOTUS than I -- what if a justice dies after casting the his or her vote, but before the opinion is released? Would his or her vote still be counted?

    Anyway, I try not to be overly optimistic about things like this, but it really seems like this is a victory. I'm sure it will be a narrow victory, but a victory nonetheless. I already have a permit, but I think it is complete horse shit that I am able to have one because I own a business and not just because it is my right.

    The justice must be present during oral argument and be a member of the court upon release of the opinion for them to be listed as participating in the case.
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,579
    Hazzard County
    Thanks for being at SCOTUS and sharing all the photographs with us. Did you happen to take one of Heller? My guess is that he does not want his photograph to be posted since it may cause him to become a target for the lefties. I am sure it was an honor to meet him. A legend in the 2A world for sure.

    Cal68

    Heller was fine with me taking a photo with him back at McDonald's argument. Where I since put it is another matter...
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    275,403
    Messages
    7,280,354
    Members
    33,450
    Latest member
    angel45z

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom