Comms - HF

Pinecone · Mar 21, 2020

My issue would be, I can have my 10 - 20m up and running in about 30 minutes. Just have to go the attic and feed the coax through the fitting in the roof, then climb on the roof and connect to the antenna.

40 and 80 means I have build another wire antenna. So have to order the stuff to make it

Keystone70 · Mar 21, 2020

Pinecone said:
CARA covers a LOT of the state. More with a simple virus antenna

I can hit it with an HT from the Aberdeen area. And I have hit it from the mobile from near Delaware line on I-95, but some hilltopping there.

And south, down to Quantico.

I think you need permission to use any repeater for a net. If you are thinking SHTF scenarios, you have to consider that a) repeaters may not be up and b) they may be dedicated to emergency traffic (RACES etc).

Simplex will not work well for a large area do to line of sight. That is why HF is important.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Keystone70 · Mar 21, 2020

I agree with buying new. Icon has one under $600 and Yaesu under $700. I would recommend the Yaesu because you get both 6m and built in antenna tuner neither of which are on the cheap icon unit. I have a Yaesu 450D and it is a good rig. It’s my backup now.
MFJ-4125 25A power supply is $100. I’ve been using one for both my 2m rig and HF for 3 yrs.

MyAntennas end fed wire is$79. Throw it in a tree. I’ve worked 153 counties with this. The built in antenna tuner will match most bands. You have to play with it and experiment. That’s true with most antennas anyway.

Add in cable and you on the air for about $1000

Note that older used equipment may not have all the newer features or reptilian quality

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mac1_131 · Mar 21, 2020

Pinecone said:
My issue would be, I can have my 10 - 20m up and running in about 30 minutes. Just have to go the attic and feed the coax through the fitting in the roof, then climb on the roof and connect to the antenna.

40 and 80 means I have build another wire antenna. So have to order the stuff to make it

Yes but all you would be talking to are Europeans and West of the Mississippi. I suggest building the wire antennas. A real nvis antenna doesn't even have to be high.

NY Transplant · Mar 21, 2020

mac1_131 said:
A real nvis antenna doesn't even have to be high.

Bear in mind that NVIS operation is only effective on 40M and lower.

mac1_131 · Mar 21, 2020

Of course. Best is 60 meters but that brings it's own associated problems.

Pinecone · Mar 21, 2020

mac1_131 said:
Yes but all you would be talking to are Europeans and West of the Mississippi. I suggest building the wire antennas. A real nvis antenna doesn't even have to be high.

I have had wires up so long they rotted away.

That is why I need to make another one.

I have been on HF since 1993.

I have worked Ohio on 10m. So not limited to long distance.

OLM-Medic · Mar 22, 2020

this might also be a stupid question but can you get a HF receiver only? Not capable of transmitting.

I was wondering if that's easy to do because you could hand them out to other non-HAMS for emergency use.

I'm looking to HF now thanks to you guys.

K31 · Mar 22, 2020

OLM-Medic said:
this might also be a stupid question but can you get a HF receiver only? Not capable of transmitting.

I was wondering if that's easy to do because you could hand them out to other non-HAMS for emergency use.

I'm looking to HF now thanks to you guys.

Yes. As a matter of fact, Software Defined Radio (SDR) will pick up quite a range of the radio spectrum including HF. You need a computer, but since most people have that already it's not a big deal. The cheapest ones (mostly the USB dongle-types but not all) will not receive lower frequency signals without a down converter so be sure to look at the specs before you by.

For a standalone radios, there are many SW (ShortWave) and radios sold as "communications receivers" some made by amateur radio gear makers themselves. Better receivers cost more dollars though and it helps to have a good outdoor antenna like those used for transmitting but just a long wire works as well. The internal ferrite core antennas in most portable ones work like crap unless you just want to listen to Megawatt commercial and government AM stations.

But if you're ever going to get your HF privileges it makes sense to just buy an HF transceiver and just listen until you get a ticket.

www.swling.com is great site for shortwave info.

E.Shell · Mar 22, 2020

K31 said:
Yes. As a matter of fact, Software Defined Radio (SDR) will pick up quite a range of the radio spectrum including HF. You need a computer, but since most people have that already it's not a big deal. The cheapest ones (mostly the USB dongle-types but not all) will not receive lower frequency signals without a down converter so be sure to look at the specs before you by..

The cheap "RTL-SDR" is less than $25 and requires a USB connected computer, free software, an antenna and a suitable coax cable. This SDR picks up VHF/UHF just fine, but as pointed out by K31 above, doesn't do the lower frequencies like HF and MF on it's own. I have one connected to a homemade 2 meter ground plane and can hear all of the VHF/UHF repeaters, FM broadcast, NWS weather broadcasts, air traffic and can even read aircraft beacons and plot their positions.

There are other computer driven SDR devices, like "AirSpy" and the "RSPxxx" series (by SDRPlay) can be a hundred or two, but will do MF/HF/VHF/UHF/SHF on their own and seamlessly. I often use an RSPDuo with an outdoor antenna to pick up HF traffic and listen on my computer, instead of firing up a power supply and an HF radio just to listen.

Any of these SDRs will be cheaper than a decent/modern HF transceiver & power supply. In fact, the RSPDuo cost less than just the linear power supply I use to run a majority of my equipment.

gamer_jim · Mar 22, 2020

OLM-Medic said:
this might also be a stupid question but can you get a HF receiver only? Not capable of transmitting.

I was wondering if that's easy to do because you could hand them out to other non-HAMS for emergency use.

I'm looking to HF now thanks to you guys.

Yes.

I have an Airspy mini SDR. It's really fun. By itself it does 24Mhz through 1.7Ghz. I can buy a downverter for it to let it go all the way to 1 khz, but i haven't yet. Their Windows software is amazing and easy to use. I connect it to my 2M antenna and I can hear everything from ham bands, FM broadcast, air traffic and the FRS & GMRS frequencies.

If your thinking about this then I'd recommend the Airspy HF +, it does 9 kHz .. 31 MHz and 60 .. 260 MHz for about $200. You can connect a raspberry pi to it and stream the signal to another PC or the the internet.

Pinecone · Mar 22, 2020

OLM-Medic said:
this might also be a stupid question but can you get a HF receiver only? Not capable of transmitting.

I was wondering if that's easy to do because you could hand them out to other non-HAMS for emergency use.

I'm looking to HF now thanks to you guys.

Yes. It is called a Short Wave receiver.

It gets ham bands, plus the international HF broadcast bands.

https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Shortwave-Radios/b?ie=UTF8&node=172653

Also, most of the ham radio companies also make them.

Antarctica · Mar 22, 2020

Lots of good stuff here on HF receivers and SDR.

There is a tradeoff with them in that most are very wide band, because short wave listeners want to be able to tune all over the spectrum. Wide band receivers pick up everything on their front end, and strong signals suck the power out of the receive chain, reducing the receivers sensitivity to low power signals.

What that means is that they are relatively deaf to all but the strongest signals. And if you are near a strong signal, like an AM transmitter, you won't hear anything but that.

The RTL-SDR is super cheap, but a terrible receiver. Where it shines is when you connect it to the IF output of a good HF receiver and pump its output to a PC with a program like HDSDR. This lets you visually see everything on the band.

If you think you'll get a license, you are far and away better off to spend your money on an amateur HF radio - even a cheap one will have performance head and shoulders above a consumer grade "Short Wave" receiver (Like a grundig, sony, etc.).

LiveSteamer · Mar 23, 2020

Novice class license 1954
Technician class 1994
General class 2014
Yaesu FT 817 ND with Buddi Stick Antenna
HF 6 - 160M bands, 2M & 70cm
AM/FM/SSB/CW Modes
QRP (5 watt output)
Operates on 120 vac or 12 vdc
Not currently operational, but could be quickly
Primary intended use, listening to gather Intel on
what is happening worldwide
Shortwave Receiver, AA battery powered, Intel gathering
Yaesu 2M mobile rig in truck, operational
Multiple VHF/UHF handheld 8 watt transceivers
Intended for short range tactical situations

Blaster229 · Mar 23, 2020

I have a little baofeng. I don't use it now because I'm "not legal". And really that little thing is basically a little walkie talkie. But who is going to call the FCC police if someone wants to use it to try and contact other survivors during the Apocalypse? How does knowing about and taking a test on waves of amplitude modulation help someone in anyway during a real need?

One thing I do know, the battery in that little thing still shows full for me never really having used it. Amazing.

E.Shell · Mar 23, 2020

Blaster229 said:
... How does knowing about and taking a test on waves of amplitude modulation help someone in anyway during a real need?...

Having the minimal understanding that comes with the entry level 'Technician' license, coupled with a little practical experience provides enough understanding of radio theory to communicate effectively.

People who have no ideas of the protocols and limitations will most likely cause great interference with those who do. Those who have practiced for effective comms during emergencies will have to stumble over those that have just turned on their transmitter for the first time.

An analogy I am sure you will understand perfectly:
Buy a gun, not zeroed, never shoot it, never had safety instruction, consider yourself an expert because movies, then go to the range and shoot yourself or someone else. Or not as bad, you finally need it to repel intruders and cannot get it to fire...

This is two-way radio in the hands of someone who "doesn't need it" until an emergency.

And BTW, amplitude modulation is possibly the least used mode of transmission, particularly EmComms, but you would have learned that...

Blaster229 · Mar 23, 2020

E.Shell said:
Having the minimal understanding that comes with the entry level 'Technician' license, coupled with a little practical experience provides enough understanding of radio theory to communicate effectively.

People who have no ideas of the protocols and limitations will most likely cause great interference with those who do. Those who have practiced for effective comms during emergencies will have to stumble over those that have just turned on their transmitter for the first time.

An analogy I am sure you will understand perfectly:

Buy a gun, not zeroed, never shoot it, never had safety instruction, consider yourself an expert because movies, then go to the range and shoot yourself or someone else. Or not as bad, you finally need it to repel intruders and cannot get it to fire...

This is two-way radio in the hands of someone who "doesn't need it" until an emergency.

And BTW, amplitude modulation is possibly the least used mode of transmission, particularly EmComms.

I do understand. I have this for whatever possible information I can listen to.
I just imagine a zombie world with some unlicensed person barking for help and then being chastised by some host somewhere saying they're not following radio protocol and to come back later after they get the appropriate license.

Pinecone · Mar 23, 2020

Antarctica said:
Lots of good stuff here on HF receivers and SDR.

There is a tradeoff with them in that most are very wide band, because short wave listeners want to be able to tune all over the spectrum. Wide band receivers pick up everything on their front end, and strong signals suck the power out of the receive chain, reducing the receivers sensitivity to low power signals.

What that means is that they are relatively deaf to all but the strongest signals. And if you are near a strong signal, like an AM transmitter, you won't hear anything but that.

The RTL-SDR is super cheap, but a terrible receiver. Where it shines is when you connect it to the IF output of a good HF receiver and pump its output to a PC with a program like HDSDR. This lets you visually see everything on the band.

If you think you'll get a license, you are far and away better off to spend your money on an amateur HF radio - even a cheap one will have performance head and shoulders above a consumer grade "Short Wave" receiver (Like a grundig, sony, etc.).

Wide band does not mean the receiver cannot have good selectivity.

It is just that the cheaper SW radios do not have multiple receiver conversion stages.

My FT-1000D is a quad conversion receiver, and it picks out signals that 3 stage Rxes cannot hear due to a nearby powerful signal.

We ran a Field Day out of a my house, and had 3 HF rigs running. Two Yaeusus and an Icom. My 1000 picked out a lot of signals that just could not be heard on the other rigs, side by side, swapping to the same antenna.

Mark75H · Mar 23, 2020

Blaster229 said:
I do understand. I have this for whatever possible information I can listen to.
I just imagine a zombie world with some unlicensed person barking for help and then being chastised by some host somewhere saying they're not following radio protocol and to come back later after they get the appropriate license.

Learning the limitations of your equipment in advance could be very advantageous. Just because you have something, doesn't mean you understand how it works under various conditions/stuations.

ETA: having an unprogrammed HT with no knowledge of repeater and node frequencies is very close to having a gun with no bullets.

Keystone70 · Mar 23, 2020

I agree with all the advice here. I passed all three tests well; but, getting on the air was another experience that showed that book learning doesn’t get it all done. I learned a lot more and understood much better after getting on the air.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Comms - HF

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

MSI Executive Member

MSI Executive Member

MSI Executive Member

Wabbit Season/Duck Season

MSI Executive Member

Ultimate Member

Banned

"Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"

Ultimate Member

Podcaster

Ultimate Member

YEEEEEHAWWW!!!!

Member

God loves you, I don't.

Ultimate Member

God loves you, I don't.

Ultimate Member

MD Wear&Carry Instructor

MSI Executive Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics