How important is brass?

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

Just ordered some 77g SMK for a “precision” build. Can I load this in Lake City brass, or do I need Match brass for best results?

BigRick · Aug 17, 2018

You’ll get a 100 different answers on this. I use federal 556 brass and reloader 15 for my 77gr loads, shoots well under moa out of my white oak barrel.

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

BigRick said:
You’ll get a 100 different answers on this. I use federal 556 brass and reloader 15 for my 77gr loads, shoots well under moa out of my white oak barrel.

Thanks! Fairly new to reloading. Do you prefer Federal over LC? I have plenty of Federal.

dist1646 · Aug 17, 2018

I currently run LC brass. I have not used Federal brass in years. I used to get all the once fired Federal brass I wanted but, I gave up on it because I was having primer pockets open up after reloading it just once. Since it has been so long ago, I can't comment on current Federal brass, hopefully they fixed the issues with it. LC brass has always been good for me. I ran Winchester brass for many years and some of my highest scores were shot using it. Lapua brass is excellent and it is my go to brass for distance shooting.

Edit: Grafs has new LC brass on sale.

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

Will getting Lapua brass tighten groups over once-fired LC brass? Appreciate everyone’s input. This is my first Precision rifle.

BigRick · Aug 17, 2018

I use to run all LC in my ar’s then I got a batch of so called once fired brass and had 9 case head separations. I had never had an issue before. I no longer run any brass in my ar’s I’m not sure how many reloads are on it. As for the federal brass I have never had any issues with it. I also don’t run hot loads either.

ohen cepel · Aug 17, 2018

Having a lot of the same brass (from same production lot, not simply a pile of it) from the same maker will help.

For something you're trying to get the best out of I would buy new stuff and keep good notes on it.

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

ohen cepel said:
Having a lot of the same brass (from same production lot, not simply a pile of it) from the same maker will help.

Thanks. Good to know.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 17, 2018

Have you exposed yourself to the phrase " Brass Preparation " yet ?

Scrounger · Aug 17, 2018

For accuracy the most important thing is consistency. While some brass may be “better” than others having the same type is more important.

All my match loads in 223 have been with Lake City brass.

My method is to process the brass which includes trimming. I’ll fire that brass till it needs trimmed. Trim it once more. Continue to use that brass till it needs trimmed again, then trash it.

ohen cepel · Aug 17, 2018

If this is your first go you may want to go once with cheap bullets to get the hang of it. Also, may find out that the 77's aren't a good bullet for your rifle, some like certain weights more than others.

Single stage press or progressive?

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

Biggfoot44 said:
Have you exposed yourself to the phrase " Brass Preparation " yet ?

Yes.

Been mostly reloading bulk/target loads over the past 2 years. I do brass prep, though.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 17, 2018

Its a slippery slope .

The late shooting and handloading partner would do : sort by weight , trim , primer pocket uniforming , flash hole uniforming , neck turning , checking concentricity with run out gage , and probably a cpl more steps I'm not thinking of .

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

ohen cepel said:
If this is your first go you may want to go once with cheap bullets to get the hang of it. Also, may find out that the 77's aren't a good bullet for your rifle, some like certain weights more than others.

Single stage press or progressive?

1:8 twist should do 77 fine. I have 62’s to toy with as well. I have a progressive. Dillon 550B. This is my first go where accuracy is the goal.

dist1646 · Aug 17, 2018

If you carefully prep and segregate your LC brass, I don't think you will see any real difference between Lapua and LC, even at distance. That said, Lapua is exceptionally uniform out of the box and saves all that extra time and work. I don't go through all that extra effort for anything under 300yds., it's just not worth it for across the course matches. On the other hand, I think the nominal extra cost for Lapua brass vs all the extra time and prep work involved for consistency at longer ranges is well worth the tradeoff.

As posted above, brass from the same lot is generally more consistent but, there can be enough variation to warrant segregating by weight if using it for longer ranges.
I once weight separated 1,000 pcs of Lapua and came out with 4 weight groups. One group of only a dozen or so cases was "light", one group of only a few pcs was "heavy"
and there were 2 main groups for the majority of the brass that were within 1/2 grain. The total weight spread of this batch of 1,000 pcs was not enough to cause a round to impact outside of the X ring of the 600yd target. I have not seen any other mfg. of brass that is this consistent and I simply stopped sorting Lapua brass. I can't say that about other brass out of the box.

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

dist1646 said:
If you carefully prep and segregate your LC brass, I don't think you will see any real difference between Lapua and LC, even at distance. That said, Lapua is exceptionally uniform out of the box and saves all that extra time and work. I don't go through all that extra effort for anything under 300yds., it's just not worth it for across the course matches. On the other hand, I think the nominal extra cost for Lapua brass vs all the extra time and prep work involved for consistency at longer ranges is well worth the tradeoff.

As posted above, brass from the same lot is generally more consistent but, there can be enough variation to warrant segregating by weight if using it for longer ranges.
I once weight separated 1,000 pcs of Lapua and came out with 4 weight groups. One group of only a dozen or so cases was "light", one group of only a few pcs was "heavy"
and there were 2 main groups for the majority of the brass that were within 1/2 grain. The total weight spread of this batch of 1,000 pcs was not enough to cause a round to impact outside of the X ring of the 600yd target. I have not seen any other mfg. of brass that is this consistent and I simply stopped sorting Lapua brass. I can't say that about other brass out of the box.

Thank you for the detailed response. Much appreciated. (don't say "no problem"....see the "no problem" thread).

Uncle Duke · Aug 17, 2018

teratos said:
Will getting Lapua brass tighten groups over once-fired LC brass? Appreciate everyone’s input. This is my first Precision rifle.

With reloading generally, one way to think about what you're trying to accomplish is to eliminate variables. As long as the ammo you're making on your bench is good ammo, then consistency becomes a goal. Just how good, becomes a matter of degree.

With brass, I think it's fair to somewhat generalize by saying that what you're looking to do is to either purchase or create case consistency. You're looking for consistent case weight for example, which typically translates to having a baseline of consistent internal volume. Another approach to the same end may be to forego the more expensive Lapua brass, but instead weigh and sort batches of cases of a brand not known for Lapua's quality control. Same deal with primer pockets, as you might trust in Lapua quality, or you might wish to ream your own. Same deal with flash holes and neck tension and concentricity, and on and on and on. Do you want more turn key brass, or do you want the still fundamentally good (but needs work to be better) handyman special brass?

Be mindful that there's a point for you where you will (perhaps gladly) wish to decide to declare victory. I say this because you can run yourself straight into the friggin nuthouse with some of these possible case prep processes. As an example, how do the bench rest fellas solve your brass question? Well, one way to mitigate case variables is by using and reusing one single case, and loading at the bench! Can you think of a better way to eliminate case variables? Now be aware that MOA doesn't get it for those guys. MOA rifles in their game are good only for tomato stakes. It's like the golfer, if you're familiar with the game. It's one thing to play well enough to consistently break 100. That can happen relatively quickly. You're doing a good bit more to be able to break 90. If you can break 80, you're playing a very different game than most. Should you have the game and the precision to break 70, you're flat out not in Kansas anymore. You're in an entirely different world.

teratos · Aug 17, 2018

Uncle Duke said:
With reloading generally, one way to think about what you're trying to accomplish is to eliminate variables. As long as the ammo you're making on your bench is good ammo, then consistency becomes a goal. Just how good, becomes a matter of degree.

With brass, I think it's fair to somewhat generalize by saying that what you're looking to do is to either purchase or create case consistency. You're looking for consistent case weight for example, which typically translates to having a baseline of consistent internal volume. Another approach to the same end may be to forego the more expensive Lapua brass, but instead weigh and sort batches of cases of a brand not known for Lapua's quality control. Same deal with primer pockets, as you might trust in Lapua quality, or you might wish to ream your own. Same deal with flash holes and neck tension and concentricity, and on and on and on. Do you want more turn key brass, or do you want the still fundamentally good (but needs work to be better) handyman special brass?

Be mindful that there's a point for you where you will (perhaps gladly) wish to decide to declare victory. I say this because you can run yourself straight into the friggin nuthouse with some of these possible case prep processes. As an example, how do the bench rest fellas solve your brass question? Well, one way to mitigate case variables is by using and reusing one single case, and loading at the bench! Can you think of a better way to eliminate case variables? Now be aware that MOA doesn't get it for those guys. MOA rifles in their game are good only for tomato stakes. It's like the golfer, if you're familiar with the game. It's one thing to play well enough to consistently break 100. That can happen relatively quickly. You're doing a good bit more to be able to break 90. If you can break 80, you're playing a very different game than most. Should you have the game and the precision to break 70, you're flat out not in Kansas anymore. You're in an entirely different world.

Makes sense. Thank you!

Uncle Duke · Aug 17, 2018

teratos said:
Makes sense. Thank you!

My pleasure. Good luck with your loading!

kalister1 · Aug 17, 2018

If you want the most out of your brass?

Measure the volume of each piece and only use those that are the same.

How important is brass?

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