SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

GTOGUNNER · May 23, 2012

Did I read this right, that Mr Woollard has not been issued his permit?

The plaintiffs misread the first footnote in the defendants’ opening supplemental brief (ECF No. 68) to be a concession that the Court lacks discretion to stay its injunctive relief as to Mr. Woollard. ECF No. 69, at 1-2. To the contrary, the Court clearly has the discretion to, and should, stay the effect of both paragraphs of the injunctive relief it awarded.

MDFF2008 · May 23, 2012

The ruling was stayed so he never got it.

Jerzee Transplant · May 23, 2012

hodgepodge said:
The first request for a stay was written by amateurs. (It looked amateurish to this non-lawyer.)

This one looks like it was written by a professional.

But the argument is still weak.

I agree with all of those thoughts.

Elliotte · May 23, 2012

martinithebun said:
My favorite had to be that a population of 600,000 was an outlier and should just be thrown out. I work with statistics and that was just ridiculous.

If DC's population of 600,000 is an outlier that should be thrown out, should Wyoming with it's population of 563,000 be thrown out as well? :lol2:

What about Vermont's population of 625,000? :sad20:

LCPIWB · May 23, 2012

frdfandc said:
Legal speak makes my head hurt.

Someone have the Clif Notes?

It is not legal speak...It is just blathering for 10 pages.

Bohlieve410 · May 24, 2012

I hope Gansler and co are reading these forums. I hope no one's families have to go through what James Privott and Zach Sowers families and friends went through. Innocent people ended by Maryland thugs when they should've defended themselves with the states blessing.

Cranky · May 24, 2012

So what come next and when?

swinokur · May 24, 2012

waiting on the Judge to rule one way or the other ie stay or no stay

krucam · May 24, 2012

Two Weeks....

yellowsled · May 24, 2012

krucam said:
Two Weeks....

a very long 2 weeks

Inigoes · May 24, 2012

krucam said:
Two Weeks....

yellowsled said:
a very long 2 weeks

Is only a guesstimate. Could be longer or sooner (I prefer sooner)...

Merlin · May 24, 2012

Mark75H said:
This is so weak. It almost looks like a concession. They must be planning legislation.

You can bet Maryland is planing everything and anything they can do if they loose.

drblast33 · May 24, 2012

The first request was so poor, I was hoping the judge was starting his reply then... but now that they actually stood up to bat on this last reply, I don't know. Will he have to write a full opinion again, or will a "YES" or "NO" would suffice as the ruling?
Geez, why can this be as quick as its on tv shows.... about 5 minutes... (yes, I'm impatient.)

Merlin · May 24, 2012

esqappellate said:
No surprises here. A lot of ipse dixit and not much else. Looking forward to Judge Legg's take. Beware the Kool Aid -- this is not in the bag.

Will Judge Legg look into all of the reports/examples both sides are using to figure out which ones are worth the paper they are written on?

Merlin · May 24, 2012

esqappellate said:
Let's see 268 killings by permits holders. Fair to assume that at least some were justifiable ( self defense) but let's assume all were illegal. How many millions of permit holders are there? Basic rule for proper use of statistics: give both the raw numbers AND percentages Gura did both, the state did not. Speaks volumes

I'm with you. But the state knows that answer and their argument is that Maryland is some how different and more dangerous then other states where there are ccw holders. If anything I think that is an argument that should support ccw's. If we are full of even more dangerous people then you have in other states, all the more reason the non-dangerous people need ccw's.

Merlin · May 24, 2012

Inigoes said:
You got to think of it this way.

What harm would be done if the stay was lifted? The state issues permits. Law abding folk do nothing (except for saving their own skin).

What harm would be done if the stay was continued? citizens rights would continue to denied by a tyrannical regime (people die waiting for the police).

And waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

Merlin · May 24, 2012

hodgepodge said:
The first request for a stay was written by amateurs. (It looked amateurish to this non-lawyer.)

This one looks like it was written by a professional.

But the argument is still weak.

I can only guess the state is hoping that Legg and the 4th will not have the guts to go 100% trough with this change in the law for Maryland. How can the state say that more court cases have supported the stay when we now have 43 states where you can carry?

matt · May 24, 2012

Merlin said:
I'm with you. But the state knows that answer and their argument is that Maryland is some how different and more dangerous then other states where there are ccw holders. If anything I think that is an argument that should support ccw's. If we are full of even more dangerous people then you have in other states, all the more reason the non-dangerous people need ccw's.

This is also how I read that part, but like 98% of us on this board, we are reading it the way we want to interpret it, (it favors us, as we read, it favors them as they read/write) no matter how good or bad it's written.

menacek04 · May 24, 2012

I'm sorry, but this section of the response is just stupid...... :mad54:

III. CRIME STATISTICS SUPPORT A STAY.
The plaintiffs make three points about crime rates that they contend counsel
against entry of a stay. Two of these points actually favor granting a stay, and the third is simply inaccurate.

How can you say that without sighting anything supporting or showing HOW the third is "inaccurate."

I am sure that I am biased in my reading of this document because of my beliefs, but they show no merit to their claims here....

jkray · May 24, 2012

menacek04 said:
I'm sorry, but this section of the response is just stupid......

How can you say that without sighting anything supporting or showing HOW the third is "inaccurate."

I am sure that I am biased in my reading of this document because of my beliefs, but they show no merit to their claims here....

I agree, its like they are a school child who has just realized his argument won't win, instead of making an actual argument he just says "no your wrong." And when asked why, his response is "cause you just are"

SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

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