Let's Discuss Burner Phones

psycosteve · Aug 20, 2021

A burner phone can be any phone but the important part of staying anonymous is not only the phone but how you use it that keeps it anonymous. The sim card is where all the information is held at. So a sim card tied to you means your new number to you. The same thing with using a new sim card with an old phone linked to you. Depending on the uses of the burner phone cash is king. Walmart has sim cards to be placed in phones on their bring your own plan. As long as you do not surf the net with it and use any form of payment linked to you you should be good. A phone with a removable battery and without internet or GPS would be the ideal burner phone. The key to a burner phone is knowing everything you do on any phone is trackable, but making that trail lead to nowhere.

bibitor · Aug 20, 2021

ToolAA said:
The main reason is that I want the option of making a call that I deem important or necessary without having it traced to me. I do not have this need now, not do I really expect the need to arise often. However I envision that there could come a time when it’s necessary.

...

Again the main interest is that I want to prepare for something unexpected. Just like I prepare for other curve balls in life. It seems like a small investment with possibly a life saving benefit if the most extremely unlikely of circumstances did occur. The best time to prepare is before the emergency.

So knowing my “Why”, feel free to share anything you are willing to share.

Is it critical that this device is a phone? VoIP can allow you to make a 'call' without ever interacting with the cellular networks and has the ability to layer security in a variety of ways. If this contingency needs to be portable there are plenty of inexpensive wifi-only tablets readily available.

JohnnyE · Aug 20, 2021

Harrys said:
Burner phone

I think that phone belongs to the guy on the right.

Inigoes · Aug 20, 2021

psycosteve said:
A burner phone can be any phone but the important part of staying anonymous is not only the phone but how you use it that keeps it anonymous. The sim card is where all the information is held at. So a sim card tied to you means your new number to you. The same thing with using a new sim card with an old phone linked to you. Depending on the uses of the burner phone cash is king. Walmart has sim cards to be placed in phones on their bring your own plan. As long as you do not surf the net with it and use any form of payment linked to you you should be good. A phone with a removable battery and without internet or GPS would be the ideal burner phone. The key to a burner phone is knowing everything you do on any phone is trackable, but making that trail lead to nowhere.

Text messages are another tracked feature.

ToolAA · Aug 20, 2021

bibitor said:
Is it critical that this device is a phone? VoIP can allow you to make a 'call' without ever interacting with the cellular networks and has the ability to layer security in a variety of ways. If this contingency needs to be portable there are plenty of inexpensive wifi-only tablets readily available.

I had never considered using a tablet and viop. It's certainty is an option in cases where you have access to wifi. I am still interested in having cellular capability when wifi is not available.

The group behind TOR is developing a mobile phone OS that is intended to provide some of the same annoimity features of TOR on mobile devices. I suspect this is still in the early develpment stages.

cpc1027 · Aug 20, 2021

It won't be much help with the specific requiremtns that you have, but for reference, there's a whole chapter about buying a phone anonymously in a book called Extreme Privacy: What It Takes to Disappear in America.

The book is a pretty interesting read, and what it boils down to is that you have to be willing to make extreme lifestyle adjustments to gain as much privacy as you are able. That, and the fact that you can never completely disappear from the eyes of a nation-state who is looking for you specifically, if you want any semblance of a normal, modern life. The book does have some good tips and techniques that you can implement, and you can decide how far you want to take them.

Jim12 · Aug 20, 2021

cpc1027 said:
It won't be much help with the specific requiremtns that you have, but for reference, there's a whole chapter about buying a phone anonymously in a book called Extreme Privacy: What It Takes to Disappear in America.

The book is a pretty interesting read, and what it boils down to is that you have to be willing to make extreme lifestyle adjustments to gain as much privacy as you are able. That, and the fact that you can never completely disappear from the eyes of a nation-state who is looking for you specifically, if you want any semblance of a normal, modern life. The book does have some good tips and techniques that you can implement, and you can decide how far you want to take them.

.

ToolAA · Aug 20, 2021

cpc1027 said:
It won't be much help with the specific requiremtns that you have, but for reference, there's a whole chapter about buying a phone anonymously in a book called Extreme Privacy: What It Takes to Disappear in America.

The book is a pretty interesting read, and what it boils down to is that you have to be willing to make extreme lifestyle adjustments to gain as much privacy as you are able. That, and the fact that you can never completely disappear from the eyes of a nation-state who is looking for you specifically, if you want any semblance of a normal, modern life. The book does have some good tips and techniques that you can implement, and you can decide how far you want to take them.

Looks like an excellent book. Interestingly not sold as a digital version. I discovered the author has a very highly rated podcast which I’ll be listening too. Thanks for the recommendation.

I realize that there is no way I can disappear nor am I trying to do so. To attempt to do so would be totally disruptive to my life and families life.

The goal is to have the ability to communicate as anonymously as possible, should the need occur, wherever and whenever that need should occur.

cpc1027 · Aug 20, 2021

Jim12 said:
.

Your point is a microcosm of the book. Attempting to maximize your privacy will require you to give up convenience - how much is up to you. If you want to read the book, you could have it delivered to your house and buy it with a credit card from Amazon but, as you pointed out, that seems contradictory to the goal. Maybe you could find it at a book store, leave your phone at home so you can't be tracked, avoid the cameras, and buy it with cash. Or maybe use a middleman who you have no ties to. How extreme do you want to get so no one knows that you bought the book?

Jim12 · Aug 21, 2021

cpc1027 said:
Your point is a microcosm of the book. Attempting to maximize your privacy will require you to give up convenience - how much is up to you. If you want to read the book, you could have it delivered to your house and buy it with a credit card from Amazon but, as you pointed out, that seems contradictory to the goal. Maybe you could find it at a book store, leave your phone at home so you can't be tracked, avoid the cameras, and buy it with cash. Or maybe use a middleman who you have no ties to. How extreme do you want to get so no one knows that you bought the book?

Not extreme enough to even buy the book. After I saw its price, I decided I'm not that curious. If you go there, please feel free to share some highlights.

ToolAA · Aug 21, 2021

Jim12 said:
Not extreme enough to even buy the book. After I saw its price, I decided I'm not that curious. If you go there, please feel free to share some highlights.

The book price is steep, so I’ll hold off for now too, but I am interested.

The author’s website has some extensive resources available for free. Many of the concepts presented there have already been the tops of post within other MDS topics including this thread.

Here is a link to his site resources.
https://inteltechniques.com/links.html

Here is a link to the podcast specific page.
https://inteltechniques.com/podcast.html

cpc1027 · Aug 21, 2021

Jim12 said:
Not extreme enough to even buy the book. After I saw its price, I decided I'm not that curious. If you go there, please feel free to share some highlights.

Wow, no joke. It looks like Amazon only has used copies available - maybe it's not being printed anymore or something. I paid less than half of that for my copy a year or two ago.

MaxVO2 · Aug 21, 2021

cpc1027 said:
Wow, no joke. It looks like Amazon only has used copies available - maybe it's not being printed anymore or something. I paid less than half of that for my copy a year or two ago.

*****Perhaps they have this expensive book at your local public library. Just make sure you check it out using your burner library card so they can't track you.

Modern problems demand modern solutions!

ToolAA · Aug 21, 2021

MaxVO2 said:
***Just make sure you check it out using your burner library card so they can't track you.

Hey start your own thread….

cpc1027 · Aug 21, 2021

MaxVO2 said:
*****Perhaps they have this expensive book at your local public library. Just make sure you check it out using your burner library card so they can't track you.

Modern problems demand modern solutions!

I nearly suggested that, but I have not had good luck with finding semi-obscure books that I am looking for at the library. Definitely worth a check though!

bibitor · Aug 21, 2021

cpc1027 said:
Wow, no joke. It looks like Amazon only has used copies available - maybe it's not being printed anymore or something. I paid less than half of that for my copy a year or two ago.

New edition released this year, dropped 'America' from the title.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B094LDWKGZ/ref=dp_ob_neva_mobile

calicojack · Aug 21, 2021

TheBert said:
1st rule: When you go to purchase, wear a hoody and mirrored sunglasses and in this climate a mask.

2nd rule: Pay for your burner phone with cash. Don’t use a Credit card or debit card!!! See rule 3 and substitute use your burner phone for buy your burner phone.

3rd rule: When you want to use your burner phone turn off your cell phone, drive 15 miles away from where you turned off your cell phones. Turn on your burner phone, make your call then turn off your burner phone. Then drive 15 miles and you can then turn on your cell phone.

Replace "turn off" with "remove the battery" because many phones have a soft-off feature

psycosteve · Aug 21, 2021

Inigoes said:
Text messages are another tracked feature.

Tracked but where it points back to is paramount in keeping anonymity. This is going to require some discipline in OPSEC to implement correctly. I should not speak more about this unless it was in the WC or by PM.

ironpony · Aug 21, 2021

Walgreens , $25 for 30 days, how are people doing payments? Or am I thinking of this wrong.

ToolAA · Aug 21, 2021

ironpony said:
Walgreens , $25 for 30 days, how are people doing payments? Or am I thinking of this wrong.

So far, this actually the hardest part of the rabbit hole investigation for me.

There a lot of companies who sell prepaid cards. The types of plans are extensive. You can pay cash for the card, but you must activate the service at some point. This is usually done by internet but I think some can be done by phone. Once the card is activated you can then start to use the service to make calls, send messages or use data if you purchase that level of service.

On one hand you can buy the card and leave the service inactivated for a long time and it cost you nothing additional. You could also purchase multiple prepaid cards too in advance, but you would still need to activate them somehow. However in my case I want to be able to use the phone in an emergency, whenever that may happen. In this case I’m going to need to have card activated in advance, and keep the service active indefinitely.

This is the hard part of this planning.

So once you have the card active most if the providers will allow you to “recharge” the card by adding additional time/minutes, etc. Ideally I would like to find a way to pay for additional time using an untraceable cryptocurrency like Monero, but I have only found a few overseas companies that accept this payment. There are US companies who accept bitcoin, which isn’t really anonymous. At this point the next best option might be to use VISA gift cards.

So if you are following along, you basically need to keep paying regularly to keep a service active that you may NEVER use. This means I’m looking for a very low cost plan like $10-$15 per month. This might be only 180 minutes of voice, 500 text messages and 1gb of data per month max. Ideally I would find a provider that sells a one year term for say $150 that could be prepaid up front.

If anyone knows of such a provider I have not found it yet.

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