Montgomery Co. & Shipping Ammo

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Bethesda John

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2007
    411
    Escaped to Virginia
    To save some money on ammo for my SKS I was looking at ordering from one of the internet sites like Cheaper than Dirt or Sportsman's Guide. Then I looked at the fine print and saw that nobody delivers to good old MoCo. I'm sure it's just another local law but what options are available? Is it legal to have it shipped to an address out of the county or is there some "straw purchase" type of regulation prohibiting that? Am I even allowed to have that much ammo on hand here in MoCo? Are there any local outlets that sell Wolf, etc. at a reasonable cost or will I have to wait for the next Frederick show? I'm sure these questions have been answered in the past but I'm just getting back into shooting and find myself living in a very gun unfriendly political environent. Thanks for any wisdom you can pass this way.
     

    ackackadak

    Member
    Oct 8, 2016
    18
    There are still folks who will ship to your door. Someone needs to be there to sign for it. I'm afraid to say exactly who as that source will likely dry up soon as well. Take a good look around...

    Dick's had some good prices on 9MM a week or two back if you bought by the case. Bass Pro seems to be another place that runs sales periodically, although I'm too far away to make it
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    When I did a search, I was surprised to find that an ad on Gunbroker and Aim Surplus both had prohibitions on shipments to MoFo MoCo.

    While not knowing why they won't ship, (with SG you'll probably never know) here is a local ordinance I found. You have to scroll down to 57-12:

    http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=amlegal:montgomeryco_md_mc

    If you read to the bottom you'll find this was held invalid. (I didn't look up the case law but I'm assuming it was the state preemption). If this is in fact, what they are going on, good luck convincing SG, etc, because members of this board have reportedly tried the same with SG's etc, Annapolis prohibition.

    Since you live in Bethesda, which I believe is incorporated, even if it was valid, it appears that is an exception unless Bethesda has a similar law. Ditto, that it the ammo is excepted from the code if it is only for rifle or shotgun.

    One other interesting thing, apparently the maximum fine is $15? for this?

    Bottom line: even if this is an overturned code, if they have it in their head that it is on the books, you probably won't convince the companies to ship to you.

    I'd check with a lawyer about shipping elsewhere but if you ship it to you, in your name to an address outside of MoCo where it is legal and you order it outside of the county (cell phone or wifi in another county) i don't see how you've violated this particular code or how it is a straw purchase.

    Oh yeah, one more thing, [heavy sarcasm mode on] this part is my favorite:

    (a) Legislative intent. The purpose of this section is to provide support to state and local law enforcement officials in their efforts against crime and violence by placing controls on the flow of dangerous ammunition, in addition to those provided by federal law, and to encourage compliance with the state police department's program of voluntary firearm registration. It is not the purpose of this section to place any undue or unnecessary restrictions or burdens on law-abiding citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession, or use of firearms appropriate to the purpose of hunting, trapshooting, target shooting, personal protection, or any other lawful activity, or to discourage or eliminate the private ownership or use of firearms by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes.

    I guess this is the legalistic form of pissing down your neck and telling you it's raining.
     

    Redneck

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 29, 2007
    7,547
    Sparrows Point
    If you have family outside of MoCo get it shipped there. Like others have siad try looking around. I buy from Georgia Arms and I know a lot of people here do and they don't seem to have any problems. I just thought about something, try and contact HoChiWaWa. Him and I ordered from Georgia Arms at about the same time but he has recieved his tey. I got mine last week and it took 3 days. He might live in MoCo, Im not sure so dont hold me to that.
     

    -Mil-Surp-Phreak-

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 26, 2007
    2,187
    Gaithersburg
    I have ordered from many different sites and have never had a problem with getting Ammo, Primers, Bullets, Powder, or Cases shipped to me in MoCo. Granted I havent ordered from SG but the vast majority of businesses shipped to me. Offhand, Wiedners, The Outdoor Marksman, Ammoman, Georgia Arms, and even AIM Surplus shipped ammo right to my door. One thing that is interesting though is no matter who they use as a common carrier, they have left each and every ammo order and even my Mosin Nagant delivery in plain view on my front porch even though the Ammo and Firearm stickers are emblazoned all over my packages. Havent had anything stolen off my porch yet, but I hate tempting fate each time I mail order ammo or guns.

    Joe
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    K-Romulus can give you the history on this b.s. "law" that's not really on the books.

    Montgomery county code 57-12 was held invalid for some reason, but it is still on the books. I am not positive why it was held invalid, but if it was because of the state preemption, then if Mont Co got that bill passed letting circumvent state preemption, then the "invalid" code may immediately become valid again.
    [Publisher's note: This section was held to be invalid by the Court of Appeals in Montgom-ery County, Maryland, et al. v. Atlantic Gunds,Inc., et al., 302 Md. 540, 489 A.2d 1114 (1985),and interpreted in Washington Suburban Sani-tary Commission v. Elgin, 53 Md.App. 452, 454A.2d 408 (1983).]
     
    Bethesda John,

    Unfortunately, welcome to the club. I had a similar experience a short time ago with Sportsman's Guide - they refused to ship when they learned that I lived in loco MoCo. As AckAckAdak and others have stated, you'll need to look around and get others to do the shipping. This may not save you much money, but at least you'll get the quantity that you are seeking. I know that Samco will ship to your door, but the caveat on being there is important. Trying to get to the UPS and FEDEX shipping locations during working hours can be a bear if you miss a door delivery.
    Good luck and let us know what you find out.
    Seneca
     

    K-Romulus

    Suburban Commando
    Mar 15, 2007
    2,427
    NE MoCO
    I ordered 1K .40 and 1K 9mm online from SG back in Jan., and they shipped it. Six months to a year before then, they told me they would not be shipping to MoCo.

    I pointed out to SG custserv that the MoCo law they were scared about (they quoted it) was held invalid by the state courts. Eight months after that email exchange, they shipped to me again. Was it a mistake at SG? I won't know until I order more, but that won't be for a while. I do know that SG sent me an email asking me to call custserv before the order would be shipped. When I called, a rep just verified my shipping address and order info. Maybe this is their new MoCo policy?

    The MoCo law was held invalid c.1983 because the state handgun law was deemed to cover handgun ammo, too, by deductive reasoning, and so the state law on point therefore trumped local law. This was even before the current preemption law was passed. If anything, the current preemption law should make it even harder to argue that localities can regulate ammo sales, except possibly in the 100yd safety zones around schools and parks where they get some sort of leeway (but I think that leeway is just on gun possession, not ammo sales).

    The court case was Atlantic Guns v. MoCo. I have a PDF for anyone interested.

    I also have a PDF of an AG Opinion on preemption, with a discussion of the history of the MD preemption law.

    MoCo's ammo sales law was passed at the time to mirror the (then new) DC ammo sales law. I think this is where the DC "unregistered ammo" criminal charge comes from. That is why any MoCo attempt to get out of statewide preemption should be fought tooth and nail. MD law is bad enough; if I wanted DC gun laws I would move to DC.

    Since I am not a MD lawyer, I can only tell you what I think the deal is with these crazy MD laws, based on my skillset. We should get a true lawyer on board to give us the real deal. They must be out there somewhere!
     
    Last edited:

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    I think the bottom line is SG is a big corporation and is going to do what it feels is in the best interest of the shareholders' profits. They look at it from a risk v. reward standpoint and figure the very small (relatively speaking) amount of sales generated in the half-dozen or so municipal areas in the country that they will not ship to are not worth the potential legal hassles and expenses. It's the same reason why Wal-Mart (in my opinion) is trying to gradually phase out firearms sales without alienating a large part of their middle America customer base. I don't agree with it, nor am I defending their actions, but just saying that this is how corporations act. It's the nature of the beast. This is one reason why we need more laws like the Lawful Commerce in Firearms Act and similar to protect these retailers from bogus lawsuits and prosecutions.

    I remember reading about some D.A. in Southern California who was going after out-of-state mail-order knife companies who had unwittingly violated some local prohibition against shipping some types of fancy knives into his county. As I recall, he offered the companies' management people a deal, pay up and "settle" with some kind of deal for several thousand dollars each, or face individual prosecution and possibly extradition to California. Now I'm sure there are probably all kinds of legal difficulties both federal and state inherent in him doing that, but nonetheless you can guess what the knife company owners/managers did rather than worry about waking up one morning as wanted men. They paid.
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    Maybe instead of complaining about the companies we should try to do something about the source of the problem. That is, we should have a friendly politician introduce legislation in the state to fine localities that pass legislation contradictory to the preemption laws (say $10,000 a day). Make the law state to stop the fine that the localities must then not only remove the law, but amend the code to say that what was prohibited is not and take out public advertisements to that effect.
     

    MG-70

    Active Member
    Jul 8, 2007
    165
    MoCo
    I also think it's a company-specific decision and for that reason take my business elsewhere. I haven't bought from AIM in a while 'cause they don't ship handguns, or was it used handguns, to MD (it's been a while since my negative experience, hence I forgot the details). Likewise, CDNN did the same to me a while back (may have changed since then). In this case it pays to have a well-connected dealer; in the end the pistol was transfered to my dealer's FFL friend in a neighboring state and he then back to my dealer and it only cost me another $10-$15 shipping.

    Many large distributors, to include Century and SOG, from which AIM's founders originated, will still ship ammo to your door. If there's no one to sign at time of delivery, call the number on the door notice and they'll hold it for you for three days max, IIRC. Since the UPS counter is open 'til 7pm, IIRC, getting there should be less of a problem.

    Unfortunately, the State either intimidates or prohibits big box retailers from selling guns. Around here, this began with Kmart's Sports Authority pulling guns back in late '80's, if I'm not mistaken. Galyan's did it until they were bought out by Dick's some 2-3 years ago and now they sell nothing but long, sporting, guns. Walmart no longer sells guns around here but still stocks ammo.
     

    smores

    Creepy-Ass Cracker
    Feb 27, 2007
    13,493
    Falls Church
    As of March/April of this year, CDNN would not ship a new handgun to MD. I wanted one of the Steyr M-A1 series pistols for $350 (cheapest I've seen them for around here was $560, and it wasn't in the caliber I wanted). CDNN bought out all the stock of Steyr guns from the importer when importation was ceased from Austria earlier this year.

    I had a friend in another state buy the gun and receive it through his FFL, I paid him for it, and he had it transferred into MD through my FFL as a used gun, without a fired case or anything.

    As for ammo - I have a decent success rate. I know CTD/SG won't ship here (I've tried). BassPro, MidwayUSA, ATG, and a few others I've gotten ammo from over the internet no questions asked.
     

    Allium

    Senior Keyboard Operator
    Feb 10, 2007
    2,704
    Not sure if this would be feasible or not but since any delivery sent to my house ends up on the street, yard or sidewalk I have everything shipped to work - from books to car parts.
     

    RobMoore

    The Mad Scientist
    Feb 10, 2007
    4,765
    QA
    My boycott of SG continues with recent complaints from AK owners who thought they were buying genuine Hungarian 20 round mags, but when SG ran out, they substituted new US made ones that are complete junk hoping the customers wouldn't notice.
     

    reiflame

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2007
    203
    I live in MoCo and Natchez has shipped to me without issue in the past. They arrived quickly and you can get good sales if you watch it.
     

    trapture

    Surplus Rifle Lover
    Apr 27, 2007
    1,878
    Dundalk-Ish
    My boycott of SG continues with recent complaints from AK owners who thought they were buying genuine Hungarian 20 round mags, but when SG ran out, they substituted new US made ones that are complete junk hoping the customers wouldn't notice.

    That's just complete crap. I hate it when they make decisions for their customers. Then to return the item they typically will make you pay for shipping back just to get the credit.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,919
    Messages
    7,258,891
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom