Bad CCW incident in Philly

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  • Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    Article is missing lots of details. Not saying its a good shoot but there are no details about the actual encounter. There are many places (like MD] that will automatically arrest you and then decide if it was justified self defense,
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    This one smells. Love triangle?

    More than likely a guy getting rough with the female, a guy steps in to her aid, bf attempts to make him mind his own business, ccw holder defends himself.

    If a guy doesnt mind getting violent with a girl he loves, he'll have no problem getting violent with a man trying to intervene.

    Remember that any media outlet in philly is likely to report it in a way to make guns look as bad as they can.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,159
    Article is missing lots of details.

    I stopped reading after it said the shooter was 24 years old.
    His cerebral cortex wasn't quite finished developing.
    Seriously.
    This is not an excuse, just an observation. Some people aren't emotionally mature enough to carry a firearm. Rights are funny that way though.

    Understanding the Teen Brain

    It doesn’t matter how smart teens are or how well they scored on the SAT or ACT. Good judgment isn’t something they can excel in, at least not yet.

    The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.

    In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.

    In teen’s brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing—and not necessarily at the same rate. That’s why when teens experience overwhelming emotional input, they can’t explain later what they were thinking. They weren’t thinking as much as they were feeling.
    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    On the one hand , illiustrates how it's usually a bad idea to intervene in situations not involving you or family members.

    But that said , all the details are missing .
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,159
    We send them to war at 18.

    Right and of course no offense to the younger guys here (especially you because you're smarter than normal :)).
    I do think that people generally make better decisions once they approach 30 and this guy's age may have played a part in him getting trigger happy.
    But I really have no idea at all what happened; he could be a Navy SEAL for all I know.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    Right and of course no offense to the younger guys here (especially you because you're smarter than normal :)).
    I do think that people generally make better decisions once they approach 30 and this guy's age may have played a part in him getting trigger happy.
    But I really have no idea at all what happened; he could be a Navy SEAL for all I know.
    I didn't start making better decisions until I was nearly 40
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    http://6abc.com/man-killed-after-argument-near-drexel-university-campus/2710761/

    This has the most details of any of the articles, the dead guy's girlfriend was too drunk to speak to police, so good chance the "victim" was also impared.
    Supposedly the couple was in a heated argument, then sometime after that stopped Mukaj(dead guy) got into a physical altercation with Howinski(shooter), then ended up getting shot. Will be interesting to see if the charges get dropped soon, not a lot of details, but if Howinski stepped in to stop what looked to be a liquor fueled domestic issue about to turn violent, and was in turn attacked, and defended his life, then it's a good shoot, and barring other details to the contrary, seems that is the direction it might be headed. It's the burden everyone has when they carry, you have the means to defend your life, and any tiny lapse in judgement, or bad luck can ruin your life, so do you step in to defend others, or be a good witness and walk away.
     

    Brychan

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    8,391
    Baltimore
    Oh well, shite happens every day, lots of people make bad decisions all the time. Whether carrying a gun, driving a car, using a shaky ladder. Carrying a firearm doesn't make you smarter, faster, or magical.
     

    5.56blaster

    Ultimate Member

    GlocksAndPatriots

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 29, 2016
    763
    We can't judge this one knowing the facts as it is. If the shooter screamed to the victim "Next time, keep your hands off women," and he turned around and started beating him, then the shooting is justified. I will add though that I am biased, because I don't particularly care for men from the former Yugoslavia. I've found them to be violent and full of false machismo.
     

    Exuberon

    Active Member
    Aug 8, 2017
    158
    Southern Virginia
    Having a CCW doesn't give the bearer the right to insert them-self into a situation and rely on a gun to keep his butt from being kicked.

    The shooter should have called the cops and monitored the situation.

    From reading the reports, it doesn't sound like it was a gun fight to begin with, only a domestic getting physical.

    I'm not a lawyer nor play one on TV but I'm former LE.... Most states don't train civilian handgun users on proper evaluation of the "use of force continuum" (or Escalation of Force "EOF" for you military folks). Firearm handling and safety is all well and good. However, you need to be able to justify escalating the need of force to a level of a firearm. A rough pushing around or even a fist fight in many states does not meet justification for a firearm.

    There are often a lot of variables including where (public or private), known or unknown subject, intent, EOF etc.... A gun or CCW does not make you self-appointed peace officer. Our guns are fun to shoot and hunt with as well as last line of defense for our lives and property. That's our 2A rights!

    ....this shooter may get off....he may get manslaughter or a murder charge. In short to me; the situation does NOT seem worth it.
     

    Clif

    Member
    Dec 3, 2012
    56
    I will not be surprised if the girl sobers up and decides she loved the dead guy through it all. The sobbing over his body comment doesn't bode well for her defending the shooter.
     

    molonlabe

    Ultimate Member
    May 7, 2005
    2,760
    Mountaineer Country, WV
    Good example for training class. When carrying mind your own business. Thats you and your loved ones. Mr. knight in shining armor's life will be changed forever.
     
    Last edited:

    Gizmo98

    Free At Last!!
    Nov 4, 2015
    683
    Central PA
    Having a CCW doesn't give the bearer the right to insert them-self into a situation and rely on a gun to keep his butt from being kicked.

    The shooter should have called the cops and monitored the situation.

    From reading the reports, it doesn't sound like it was a gun fight to begin with, only a domestic getting physical.

    I'm not a lawyer nor play one on TV but I'm former LE.... Most states don't train civilian handgun users on proper evaluation of the "use of force continuum" (or Escalation of Force "EOF" for you military folks). Firearm handling and safety is all well and good. However, you need to be able to justify escalating the need of force to a level of a firearm. A rough pushing around or even a fist fight in many states does not meet justification for a firearm.

    There are often a lot of variables including where (public or private), known or unknown subject, intent, EOF etc.... A gun or CCW does not make you self-appointed peace officer. Our guns are fun to shoot and hunt with as well as last line of defense for our lives and property. That's our 2A rights!

    ....this shooter may get off....he may get manslaughter or a murder charge. In short to me; the situation does NOT seem worth it.

    Let's just say hypothetically (and I want to be clear that I'm not saying this was the situation) that you witness a couple arguing and it's pretty apparent the guy is about to kick the shit out of a woman. Are you saying that you wouldn't try to help if you were carrying? Again hypothetically, if the guy then turns his aggression on you and you genuinely fear for your life, would you shoot? You didn't escalate the situation. In fact, you could easily argue that you tried to deescalate because one witness is dead, the other was drunk off her ass, and you're the third. Just asking.

    In this case, the two guys probably started arguing, and the CCW holder probably shouldn't have pulled. Probably. Hopefully he has some bumps and bruises to back up a self-defense claim. It's troubling that they already filed murder charges, though. There is clearly some info not making it to the news.
     

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