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Jimbob2.0 · Jul 13, 2018

lazarus said:
Oh and lastly, I am constantly hearing guys moaning about how they wish they had bought X or Y when you could get them for $79 each and stacks of them.

I agree a P64 is not the same as milsurp and what not. But everything I’ve heard from folks is it is super well built, but ridiculously heavy trigger pull in DA. hard to make much money on goods if you don’t take any risk. If it was guaranteed profit tons of people would do it and everything would dry up in days.

They are nice guns, 10 years from now people will be saying I wish I had bought them. Bought two.

Sure its not an EG mak but few things are as good as EG machining. Its better than FEG, on par with a lot of other things including some new production commercial handguns. Yes I have all of the above so comparisons are fair!

Oldcarjunkie · Jul 14, 2018

lazarus said:
Oh and lastly, I am constantly hearing guys moaning about how they wish they had bought X or Y when you could get them for $79 each and stacks of them.

I agree a P64 is not the same as milsurp and what not. But everything I’ve heard from folks is it is super well built, but ridiculously heavy trigger pull in DA. hard to make much money on goods if you don’t take any risk. If it was guaranteed profit tons of people would do it and everything would dry up in days.

I bought three back in the day I think they were 160 each. I let two go to local friends and of course the one I kept broke on me. Luckily I was able to get the part from a guy on GunBroker who lives in Poland. They have went up over the last 7 to 10 years but not very much. I feel as if they disappeared they might start to bring just over the 300 mark but I doubt it would go much higher in my opinion.

lazarus · Jul 14, 2018

Oldcarjunkie said:
I bought three back in the day I think they were 160 each. I let two go to local friends and of course the one I kept broke on me. Luckily I was able to get the part from a guy on GunBroker who lives in Poland. They have went up over the last 7 to 10 years but not very much. I feel as if they disappeared they might start to bring just over the 300 mark but I doubt it would go much higher in my opinion.

Probably right. Nothing super cool about them, but yeah, $300ish seems right and inflation after that. Handling one and the bit I’ve read they are really well made and generally pretty solid.

lazarus · Jul 14, 2018

So a question, how much does the hex pin really help crack frames on the P1? I was trying to do a search and I came across several people mentioning cracked frames WITH the hex pin as well as some pictures of that. They claimed no +P usage ever. Just curious. I don’t plan to keep mine as a museum piece, but of course only basic ball ammo, no NATO or +P. I may try some 115gr JHP basic loads like some American Gunner just to see how it functions as I always love at least s basic SD load for all my guns if possible. Not something I’d run more than a few mags through to make sure it feeds well.

Anyway, mine is an 11/63 manufacture, no hex pin, skinny slide (I might pick up a fat slide from CDDN as they seem to be $30, but I’ll just take my chances on my skinny slide cracking. I figure a cheap backup while it is still cheap)

Feels great in my hand and I love the trigger. DA seems just the right amount of force to avoid things like ND and not so wildly heavy to throw off POA a ton and SA is reasonably crisp and not super light (or heavy). Only other DA/SA handgun I own right now is a Cz-50 and it’s DA seems slightly heavier and the SA a bit too light (even with .32acp it is easy to accidently double if you aren’t being mildly cautious With trigger pull).

I can’t wait to get it to the range. Hopefully next week

PS the other side has a bit more wear to it, but nothing bad, just some light holster wear.

PPS our of curiosity is there a way to tell if the gun was police issue or BW issue?

somd_mustangs · Jul 14, 2018

Looks like it's in good shape.

The hex pin in the P1/P38 is only to reduce wear at the contact point where the aluminum frame drives the steel lock block back up when the slide goes back into battery.
It was not meant to (and does not) "strengthen" the frame.
The forged lock block and "fat" slide are the improvements made for strength.
Even then that was done to reduce fatigue/cracking with NATO loads, not +P or heavy bullets.

Best bet is to stick with 115gr FMJ standard loads and put in new standard-rate recoil springs (Wolff aka gunsprings.com has them, and offers discount to FFL-03's).
If you do that you should be in good shape but keep an eye on the slide esp the lugs inside where the recoil spring guides hit.
The "ears" on the lock block are more likely to fail than the slide (cascading failure of block -> slide). The forged block helps that immensely.
Of the two I'd go with the better lock block first; it may need some tweaking to get it to fit properly but it's pretty straightforward.

Look for a "Bw" or other proofs on left and right sides of frame and that will be indication of who used it.

somd_mustangs · Jul 14, 2018

Quick ID guide.

Cast block (old style) has a lot number or whatever and if you look close the texture is a little different, and the edges are smoother.
The forged block is milled to final shape so edges are typically sharper.
But the key is that lot number.

Fat slide has more serrations at the back (on both sides).

lazarus · Jul 14, 2018

Since the lock block is ramming in to aluminum, why would you want forged? Or is the point that it is still thinner/weaker than the aluminum it is hitting and subject to more deformation and metal fatigue over time?

lazarus · Jul 14, 2018

Looks like a forged locking block in mine. Only proof marks I can see looks like two tiny eagles looking to their left on the right side of the frame above the trigger guard.

A slide question...the importer mark is actually on the slide (very tastefully done)...isn’t it supposed to be on the frame...

Also does that mean I can’t replace the slide? I can’t remember if you can remove an importer’s mark.

I am more worried about cracking than wear. My Glock is more likely to be the handgun eating a thousand or two rounds a year. This P1 is more likely to be eating 300-400.

I wonder if the wear/cracking issues is more something they noticed later on after decades of feeding them 124gr 1250fps NATO after the P38 was originally eating more like 115gr 1150fps.

Alphabrew · Jul 16, 2018

Classic has CZ fiddies on sale for two hunnit:

https://www.classicfirearms.com/czech-made-cz-50-pistol-32-acp-semi-auto

lazarus · Jul 16, 2018

And the brace of P64s showed up today. The one has a noticeably nicer trigger than the other one. Both are very heavy triggers. Not sure if I’ll change out the springs in one of them or not.

Very, very little wear, both all matching as near as I can tell without taking them down to itty bits.

Jimbob2.0 · Jul 16, 2018

lazarus said:
And the brace of P64s showed up today. The one has a noticeably nicer trigger than the other one. Both are very heavy triggers. Not sure if I’ll change out the springs in one of them or not.

Very, very little wear, both all matching as near as I can tell without taking them down to itty bits.

Cool they seem cheap now but buy while they are. I have two might order a third. Given the number of them and other factors it will probably take 5 to 10 years for these to get double digit returns on value but heck its a cheap gun.

Abulg1972 · Jul 17, 2018

Alphabrew said:
Classic has CZ fiddies on sale for two hunnit:

https://www.classicfirearms.com/czech-made-cz-50-pistol-32-acp-semi-auto

Dang, that’s cheap. I paid $270 from Classic last November. I have an affinity for .32 ACP lady pistols and like this one a lot.

MilsurpDan · Jul 19, 2018

Fellow French Revolver Lovers! Grafs has Fiocchi 8mm Lebel REVOLVER ammo for your Mle.1892 in stock! First run they've done in a long time.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/orderId/1476135/productId/3743

I found some at the last Nations show and thought it was just some that was old stock. I might buy a couple more boxes just to have. I actually reload the round myself using .32-20 cases for about .50 a round. So if you don't reload, it's not a bad price. Apparently Midway also has it for more money as usual.

lazarus · Jul 20, 2018

Well hell, I got my P64s to the range. One has a slightly nicer trigger than the other one. I realize I should remember, but it was either flawless function or there was one failure to feed on one of them. My excuse is I had my new to me P1, G17, both P64s, sighting in and grinding down the new front sight on my M1 Carbine, shooting my Garand and testing out some match ammo and my new 3x magnifier for my 16” AR-15.

But that aside, it’s got some noticeable recoil compared to my P1 or G17. Not strong enough to be harsh, but I could see how your hand could get sore if you tried to run two boxes of ammo through one in a range session with no gloves on (I almost always wear gloves when shooting).

But oh man these things are RIDICULOUS fun. I caught myself giggling completely unmanly a couple of times. There is just something about PP and PPK clones (and PP and PPK pistols themselves) that is so much fun. I like my Cz-50 more still I think, but I’ll be keeping a P64 for sure.

PS what would likely hurt my hand is the mag extension without gloves. I barely manage to get my pinky on it firmly, but without gloves under recoil my pinky slips off occasionally. Not really with gloves on. But I can see that wearing my pinky raw after 100+ rounds.

lazarus · Jul 20, 2018

Well hell, I got my P64s to the range. One has a slightly nicer trigger than the other one. I realize I should remember, but it was either flawless function or there was one failure to feed on one of them. My excuse is I had my new to me P1, G17, both P64s, sighting in and grinding down the new front sight on my M1 Carbine, shooting my Garand and testing out some match ammo and my new 3x magnifier for my 16” AR-15.

But that aside, it’s got some noticeable recoil compared to my P1 or G17. Not strong enough to be harsh, but I could see how your hand could get sore if you tried to run two boxes of ammo through one in a range session with no gloves on (I almost always wear gloves when shooting).

But oh man these things are RIDICULOUS fun. I caught myself giggling completely unmanly a couple of times. There is just something about PP and PPK clones (and PP and PPK pistols themselves) that is so much fun. I like my Cz-50 more still I think, but I’ll be keeping a P64 for sure.

PS what would likely hurt my hand is the mag extension without gloves. I barely manage to get my pinky on it firmly, but without gloves under recoil my pinky slips off occasionally. Not really with gloves on. But I can see that wearing my pinky raw after 100+ rounds.

somd_mustangs · Jul 23, 2018

AIM "HEX"ed P1's.

Looks like AIM realized everyone wants the upgraded P1's and is offering them separately for a slight bump. Well worth the extra $20 IMHO

Implied that these are production-improved guns, not reworks but either way...

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3WALP1HEX

Alphabrew · Jul 23, 2018

Not C&R yet but Classic has Star BM for $150

https://www.classicfirearms.com/sta...843000957783694556065650669708249277139834119

lazarus · Jul 23, 2018

somd_mustangs said:
Looks like AIM realized everyone wants the upgraded P1's and is offering them separately for a slight bump. Well worth the extra $20 IMHO
Implied that these are production-improved guns, not reworks but either way...

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3WALP1HEX

So what is the deal with that? From the research I did, the hex pin reduces receiver wear from the unlocking block smacking it, but the broaching of the hole and what not weakens the frame. Though frame cracking isn’t likely unless you use higher powered ammo.

PS, if you get a skinny slide, someone one fleabay is selling fat slides for $16.95 plus like $4 in shipping. My slide matches the frame, but I am really thinking I’ll swap to the fat slide when it shows and keep the skinny slide for resale or spare.

lazarus · Jul 23, 2018

Alphabrew said:
Not C&R yet but Classic has Star BM for $150

https://www.classicfirearms.com/sta...843000957783694556065650669708249277139834119

If the mags weren’t an issue and I didn’t have to pay $60 in transfer fees and MSP background check AND shipping. I wish they’d turn C&R already.

somd_mustangs · Jul 27, 2018

somd_mustangs said:
Looks like AIM realized everyone wants the upgraded P1's and is offering them separately for a slight bump. Well worth the extra $20 IMHO
Implied that these are production-improved guns, not reworks but either way...

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3WALP1HEX

somd_mustangs quotes himself and says damn, these are nice

YMMV but the one that came today is dated 2/80, unissued / zero wear, not a rework and original factory-matched parts (slide, barrel, block numbered to the frame).
Original fat slide, hex pin and forged block.
Import mark is a neat stamp on right side of slide, hardly visible.

My only complaint is AIM just tossed the gun in the box on top of the holster and the plastic geegaws on the holster put some scuff marks on the slide.
Ironically the original Bw plastic bag and inventory tag were stuffed underneath the holster, with the VCI paper neatly folded inside.

I was skeptical but very pleasantly surprised and if I wasn't strapped for cash I'd buy a couple more to squirrel away.

It's really too nice to shoot dammit.

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