Md CCW holders and AR pistols

swinokur · May 14, 2017

the case would hinge on "storage" A perrmit holder is entitles to wear, carry, and transport.

Jaybeez · May 14, 2017

swinokur said:
the case would hinge on "storage" A perrmit holder is entitles to wear, carry, and transport.

Exactly.
If you as a permit holder stop at the grocery store and leave a handgun in your vehicle
1. You arent wearing
2. You arent carrying
3. You may be transporting, depending on who gets to define transporting that day.

Stoveman · May 14, 2017

Jaybeez said:
Exactly.
If you as a permit holder stop at the grocery store and leave a handgun in your vehicle
1. You arent wearing
2. You arent carrying
3. You may be transporting, depending on who gets to define transporting that day.

Substitute grocery store with Post Office.

What are you supposed to do with your handgun, AR style or otherwise?

Hit and Run · May 14, 2017

Stoveman said:
Substitute grocery store with Post Office.

What are you supposed to do with your handgun, AR style or otherwise?

Transport it in your car, i.e. store it securely while you go about your business.

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Stoveman · May 14, 2017

Hit and Run said:
Transport it in your car, i.e. store it securely while you go about your business.

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Which is what I do. What I'm getting at is how do those that say storage isn't covered in wear, carry and transport square this?

As much as I try not to have to go into GFZ, there are the inevitable unavoidable times that this happens during the course of a business day.

pop-gunner · May 14, 2017

I know a couple of folks that have a Kel-Tec PLR16 as a truck/car gun.

dblas · May 14, 2017

knastera said:
It's a good point about the Sig brace. Do you really want to carry your ATF letter everywhere you go? Also, to carry it in your car means your have to carry it everywhere. I wouldn't want to walk the street with my AR pistol. Also, think of a situation where you get pulled over while carrying. It's pretty easy to tell the officer that you have a permit and that you have a gun on your hip. I'm trying to envision the awkwardness of telling the officer, "i have an AR pistol in my backpack."

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There is no requirement to notify LE that you A) have a permit and B) have a firearm on your person during a traffic stop.

dblas · May 14, 2017

Stoveman said:
Substitute grocery store with Post Office.

What are you supposed to do with your handgun, AR style or otherwise?

Don't park your vehicle in the Post Office parking lot, it is a federal violation and has been upheld in Federal court.

Stoveman · May 14, 2017

dblas said:
Don't park your vehicle in the Post Office parking lot, it is a federal violation and has been upheld in Federal court.

The only PO I frequent is across the street from my shop, no worries there.

knastera · May 15, 2017

dblas said:
There is no requirement to notify LE that you A) have a permit and B) have a firearm on your person during a traffic stop.

I keep my CCW right next to my license. If I'm ever pulled over while carrying, I will let the officer know. My choice.

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swinokur · May 15, 2017

IIRC if the PO is in a strip mall with a shared lot the federal statute does not apply.

CharlieFoxtrot · May 15, 2017

You have to be careful there are several definitions floating around in the Maryland Code. Public Safety 5-301(c) in the handgun permit section states:

"(c) Handgun.- "Handgun" has the meaning stated in § 4-201 of the Criminal Law Article.

"

CL 4-201 states:

(c) Handgun.-
(1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
(2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.
(3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.

knastera · May 15, 2017

The big clause for me is "capable of being concealed on the person." Does that include a backpack or briefcase?

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swinokur · May 15, 2017

yup, IMO neither of those is on my person.

but IANAL or a dumb ass legicritter from Naptown

knastera · May 15, 2017

swinokur said:
yup, IMO neither of those is on my person.

but IANAL or a dumb ass legicritter from Naptown

I agree with you. I wonder what the implications are for a woman that carries in a handbag. The letter of the law says, "capable" of being carried on the person. If I'm reading this in a very conservative view, I'm thinking that a woman carrying a Glock 43 in her purse is capable of carrying a Glock 43 on her person. I can't say the same for an AR pistol.

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dblas · May 15, 2017

knastera said:
I keep my CCW right next to my license. If I'm ever pulled over while carrying, I will let the officer know. My choice.

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And that is indeed your choice.

dblas · May 15, 2017

swinokur said:
IIRC if the PO is in a strip mall with a shared lot the federal statute does not apply.

I believe it was understood to be brick and mortar stand alone PO.

swinokur · May 15, 2017

my normal practice (outside the gulag) is to hand my CCW to the office along with my DL.

realing in some states it isn't required.

just a courtesy

CharlieFoxtrot · May 15, 2017

I see no legal requirement that a person who has a permit issued by the Secretary carry the handgun on your person.

Public Safety 5-301(d) says ""Permit" means a permit issued by the Secretary to carry, wear, or transport a handgun.

Also Criminal Law 4-203(b)(2) says ( this is the blanket criminal prohibition against transporting a handgun in general) :

(b) Exceptions.- This section does not prohibit:

(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun, in compliance with any limitations imposed under § 5-307 of the Public Safety Article, by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

The legislature is presumed to mean what it says when it enacts a statue and they chose to put all three words: 'wearing, carrying and transporting' in the language of the statute. They also used disjunctive ("or") instead of conjunctive ("and")which means you can do each of those things individually.

Stoveman · May 15, 2017

CharlieFoxtrot said:
I see no legal requirement that a person who has a permit issued by the Secretary carry the handgun on your person.

Public Safety 5-301(d) says ""Permit" means a permit issued by the Secretary to carry, wear, or transport a handgun.

Also Criminal Law 4-203(b)(2) says ( this is the blanket criminal prohibition against transporting a handgun in general) :

The legislature is presumed to mean what it says when it enacts a statue and they chose to put all three words: 'wearing, carrying and transporting' in the language of the statute. They also used disjunctive ("or") instead of conjunctive ("and")which means you can do each of those things individually.

Thank you, Counselor.

Md CCW holders and AR pistols

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