Can someone PLEASE clear things up for me!

omegaZ87 said:

The answer on the MDSP website seems to contradict what everyone else here is saying. MDSP seems to indicate that I can do more than one paperwork in a month as long as each pick up is 30 days apart:

"Q: Can I complete an additional application for the purchase of a regulated firearm even though I am currently waiting for my previous application to be approved?
A: A person may not purchase more than one regulated firearm in a 30-Day period. You may complete more than one application within 30 days, however you may not transfer or take possession of more than one firearm within the 30 day period. Exceptions to this rule are listed on the Regulated Firearms Collector page."


Is there something that is getting lost in translation here?

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Maybe just that I don't think one can receive a AR-15 firearm after Oct. 1.

I'm scratching my head. Why would you go out and buy that many guns in a month knowing you'd need an HQL after 10/1 anyway and that you have to wait 30 days between each pick up? Did you inform the last gun shop that you have multiple guns that you need to pick up before you get it from them? Some wont hold it that long and you will be SOL.

Regardless of how many you can "purchase", you have to use some common sense. You've got yourself in a pickle and I suspect you will be out a lot of money. Lesson learned.

Antlers09 said:

I'm scratching my head. Why would you go out and buy that many guns in a month knowing you'd need an HQL after 10/1 anyway and that you have to wait 30 days between each pick up? Did you inform the last gun shop that you have multiple guns that you need to pick up before you get it from them? Some wont hold it that long and you will be SOL.

Regardless of how many you can "purchase", you have to use some common sense. You've got yourself in a pickle and I suspect you will be out a lot of money. Lesson learned.

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Because I was told that I can purchase multiple regulated firearms at a time as long as each pick up is 30 days apart. I have just recently become a patron of the 2nd amendment and wanted to get my hands on some regulated rifles before it was too late.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

omegaZ87 said:

The answer on the MDSP website seems to contradict what everyone else here is saying. MDSP seems to indicate that I can do more than one paperwork in a month as long as each pick up is 30 days apart:

"Q: Can I complete an additional application for the purchase of a regulated firearm even though I am currently waiting for my previous application to be approved?
A: A person may not purchase more than one regulated firearm in a 30-Day period. You may complete more than one application within 30 days, however you may not transfer or take possession of more than one firearm within the 30 day period. Exceptions to this rule are listed on the Regulated Firearms Collector page."


Is there something that is getting lost in translation here?

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Purchasing, papering, and transferring are 3 separate actions.

bpm32 said:

In any event the OP should probably apply for Designated Collector status now so he can pick up the pistols at the same time after Oct. 1, and apply for the HQL whenever that mythical beast appears.

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I actually applied for the collectors status last week - so fingers crossed it comes in before Oct 1 or shortly thereafter!

Had I known how simple it was to apply, I would have done so months ago. It all comes down to a general ignorance of the law - never learned any of this growing up in a liberal-democrat family.

Antlers09 said:

I'm scratching my head. Why would you go out and buy that many guns in a month knowing you'd need an HQL after 10/1 anyway and that you have to wait 30 days between each pick up? Did you inform the last gun shop that you have multiple guns that you need to pick up before you get it from them? Some wont hold it that long and you will be SOL.

Regardless of how many you can "purchase", you have to use some common sense. You've got yourself in a pickle and I suspect you will be out a lot of money. Lesson learned.

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Maybe he found a pair of pristine Colt Pythons for $700 each....

Omega, I don't think you were wrong in how you understood it to work. Typically when people do it, they do it through an FFL they've worked with in the past and do all of the purchases through the same FFL. Using multiple FFL's complicates your situation, but being new to the arena it is easily understandable. The clock is supposed to start on pickup... So the extended delay may screw you by no fault of your own. Welcome to the community, I hope everything works out.

Honestly I don't see a huge legal issue as long as he keeps his 77r's with the pickup dates on file and doesn't pick up the AR + Ak too soon. It's not the shops responsibility to keep track of the time, it's his. The new handguns will end up sitting in an FFL safe for a couple months. I expect they'll be quite a few in the safe by the time the HQL paperwork fiasco gets settled.

At least it sounds like the OP called and talked to the FFL's that have his firearms. I don't understand the other FFL's hostility. Even if he does get rejected, he can transfer them to someone else or deal with the FFL for a refund.

There are so many things that are disturbing in this thread. Bad advice, "just became a patron of the 2nd Amendment", still don't think the OP knows what the heck is going on, etc.

I honestly think I am done trying to figure this stuff out for everybody. Here we are 12 days until d-day and people still have not put forth the effort to figure this out or take the appropriate steps to get what they want and can afford.

OP - I really do hope that you get all of this straightened out and I will give you one hint. An FFL can only hold a firearm for 90 days after the ND comes back. If the MSP is actually caught up with the backlog, this might be an issue. If not, not a big issue since the backlog is 4 months. Now, go research HQL and purchase orders. I think there is a way to work it out for you to get everything. It wouldn't be a smooth process, but I think it can be done. Just not willing to put forth the effort to prepare a timeline and fully understand the situation to recommend a course of action.

Lastly, you were born with several Rights if you were born in this country. The Right to bear arms, which is the 2nd Amendment, is one of them. Glad to know you recently became a "patron" of it. Ironic how people ignore their Rights until they finally decide to "exercise" them. If you think this is bad, the rest of your Rights are getting trampled too.

fabsroman said:

There are so many things that are disturbing in this thread. Bad advice, "just became a patron of the 2nd Amendment", still don't think the OP knows what the heck is going on, etc.

I honestly think I am done trying to figure this stuff out for everybody. Here we are 12 days until d-day and people still have not put forth the effort to figure this out or take the appropriate steps to get what they want and can afford.

OP - I really do hope that you get all of this straightened out and I will give you one hint. An FFL can only hold a firearm for 90 days after the ND comes back. If the MSP is actually caught up with the backlog, this might be an issue. If not, not a big issue since the backlog is 4 months. Now, go research HQL and purchase orders. I think there is a way to work it out for you to get everything. It wouldn't be a smooth process, but I think it can be done. Just not willing to put forth the effort to prepare a timeline and fully understand the situation to recommend a course of action.

Lastly, you were born with several Rights if you were born in this country. The Right to bear arms, which is the 2nd Amendment, is one of them. Glad to know you recently became a "patron" of it. Ironic how people ignore their Rights until they finally decide to "exercise" them. If you think this is bad, the rest of your Rights are getting trampled too.

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Few things:

1) Yes, it seems I may have gotten bad advise - but that is why I am trying to get the matter cleared up here. I hope you don't hold that against me.

2) By just becoming a patron I simply mean that I only recently came to understanding the real meaning behind why our nations framers so strongly believed in this right - hence my recent desire to acquire the musket of our times.

3) You are correct in saying I do not know what the heck is going on. I came here for enlightenment.

4) How can I figure this out 12 days until D-day when the very people selling me firearms are giving me mixed reports as to what I can and cannot do???

Thanks for the bit of advise you give in your middle paragraph. I don't see why you are so put off by my stating that I have recently become a patron of the second amendment. I grew up in a very anti-gun household and was never properly educated on the need and reasoning behind the second amendment. Even though I have a degree in U.S. Government - this is not something focused on by our educational system. Even as I type this new textbooks are being printed in Texas that state the second amendment grants you the right to bear arms ONLY if you are part of a well regulated militia. (see: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...texas-ap-textbook-re-writes-second-amendment/)

If that is happening in Texas, whats left to say about Maryland?

Why not go to MSP at Pikesville and see if you can persuade the Designated Collector official to consider expediting your clearance, given your particular set of circumstances. Probably wouldn't work, but might just be worth a try.

Might also help if you got a good word from your MD delegate. MSP is somewhat sensitive to the needs of politicians.

Added advantage is you'd get an in-your-face Maryland experience, see state government ops at the boots on the ground level.

omegaZ87 said:

Few things:

1) Yes, it seems I may have gotten bad advise - but that is why I am trying to get the matter cleared up here. I hope you don't hold that against me.

2) By just becoming a patron I simply mean that I only recently came to understanding the real meaning behind why our nations framers so strongly believed in this right - hence my recent desire to acquire the musket of our times.

3) You are correct in saying I do not know what the heck is going on. I came here for enlightenment.

4) How can I figure this out 12 days until D-day when the very people selling me firearms are giving me mixed reports as to what I can and cannot do???

Thanks for the bit of advise you give in your middle paragraph. I don't see why you are so put off by my stating that I have recently become a patron of the second amendment. I grew up in a very anti-gun household and was never properly educated on the need and reasoning behind the second amendment. Even though I have a degree in U.S. Government - this is not something focused on by our educational system. Even as I type this new textbooks are being printed in Texas that state the second amendment grants you the right to bear arms ONLY if you are part of a well regulated militia. (see: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...texas-ap-textbook-re-writes-second-amendment/)

If that is happening in Texas, whats left to say about Maryland?

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Fair enough. I just had the philosophical discussion with my wife a couple days ago about whether she ever wonders how things would be different if she were born to different parents in a different place. For instance, born in Texas. Born in South Africa. Born in China. Born a different race.

So, I cannot hold it against you that you were born to parents that had absolutely no inkling toward firearms. I apologize about that. I think I said this in another thread today, but it really is a foreign concept to me that a lot of people in the US have never held a firearm, much less learned how to use one. It is just something that I grew up with. From shooting a pellet gun at an empty Schlitz can in the backyard of my parents' house in Kensington (i.e., Montgomery County), to shooting a shotgun at age 6 or 7, and hunting at age 8.

It is even harder for me to understand how people do not care about the Bill of Rights and how they do not understand history and how we are allowing our government to repeat the bad trends of history in so many ways. Then again, I think it comes down to us as a nation. We don't want personal responsibility anymore. We want an easy life with no worries and we kick the can down the road, either understanding that our descendants will eventually pay a huge price, not carry whatsoever who will pay the price, or not understanding that somebody HAS to pay the price.

Anyway, if I were in your shoes, I would apply for the Designated Collector license right now. Believe you said you applied for it a week or two ago. If that is incorrect, then apply for it TODAY. Back in June the wait was about 2 months. Maybe if you contact Ms. Brock and inform her that the Secretary is supposed to respond within 14 days of receiving the application, she might take pity on you. From COMAR 29.03.01.04:

.04 Multiple Purchase of Regulated Firearms.

...

E. The Secretary shall adopt an application form to be used by an individual who desires to be designated as a collector. The application shall contain:

(1) The applicant's:

(a) Full name;

(b) Address;

(c) Driver's license or photographic identification soundex number;

(d) Social Security number;

(e) Date and place of birth;

(f) Height;

(g) Weight;

(h) Race;

(i) Sex;

(j) Eye color;

(k) Hair color;

(l) Occupation; and

(m) Home and work telephone numbers; and

(2) The nature of the applicant's collecting activities.

F. The applicant shall sign the application and certify under penalty of perjury that the information in the application is true and correct.

G. Incomplete or illegible applications shall be disapproved.

H. An individual who desires to be designated as a collector shall have the application notarized and submit the application by first class mail to the Secretary requesting this designation.

I. If the individual is not prohibited by federal or State law from purchasing or possessing a regulated firearm, the notarized application shall be sufficient for a designation as a collector.

J. If the individual is designated by the Secretary to be a collector, the Secretary shall notify the individual in writing within 14 days of receiving the individual's request.

Since you cannot take possession of handguns after October 1, 2013 without the HQL, you are stuck on the handguns but will eventually be able to pick them up once the process for the HQL is known IF you are willing pay the money required for the HQL and to go through the other hoops required. So, put those two handguns on the back burner for now.

Regarding the assault weapons, contact the sellers and tell them that you want something in writing, at least a receipt, showing that the firearms are in their possession and that you have put down a deposit for them or you have paid for them. If there is a Form 77r in place or a purchase order in place for an assault weapon before October 1, 2013, the purchaser can continue to possess the assault weapon after October 1, 2013 even though the purchaser takes initial possession of the assault weapon after October 1, 2013. Thing is, there is no sure definition of what a purchase order is.

Let the dealers know that you have applied for your DC status and that you will take possession of the "assault weapons" as soon as the DC approval comes back or you will start taking possession of them one every 30 days based upon the order in which the paperwork was submitted to MSP.

End of the day, the dealers need to feel comfortable with the entire process and you need to make sure you remain on the right side of the law. So, explain the entire time line to the dealers, explain what you have done to try an expedite the process, explain that if there is a PO or Form 77r in place on a assault weapon before October 1, 2013 you can continue to possess it after October 1, 2013, and good luck.

You need to develop a timeline of when you picked stuff up, when you submitted paperwork, and when you can pick up the next item.

Bob A said:

Why not go to MSP at Pikesville and see if you can persuade the Designated Collector official to consider expediting your clearance, given your particular set of circumstances. Probably wouldn't work, but might just be worth a try.

Might also help if you got a good word from your MD delegate. MSP is somewhat sensitive to the needs of politicians.

Added advantage is you'd get an in-your-face Maryland experience, see state government ops at the boots on the ground level.

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The DC application specifically says it will make no difference if you drop the form off in person. Don't think showing up in person and begging will work, but who knows. Anything is worth a try. Worst they could do is lose your app for several months thereafter. Actually, I guess they could run it through the shredder and claim they never received it.

Yup the way it appears to me is if its a banned item and you have paperwork in that constitutes a purchase order and you can liberate it as the 30 days come up.

If it's a handgun you are probably stuck with getting an Hal.

Shops tat take your property, beyond the customary restocking fee of 15%, should be exposed here with documentation and virtually runt at the stake.

And in the further * Md being Md * dept - The MSP policy presently in force . And posted on website is different from their traditional stance. The present policy apeared during the current backlog , presumably bevause they feared massive public anger , and resultant legal action and/ or MGA pressure. Doesn't take too much imagination to forsee return to traditional policies after the backlog works through in ( whatever period of time ).

I know Coulda , Shoulda , and Woulds is useless and counterproductive. But you really , really , needed to have gotten your Designated collector when it would have helped.

The rifles you'll be covered as Purchase Order. The other handguns put you into HQL territory, and you will need to ( do as dictated by your personal beliefs and political philosophy ).

If this mess is confusing to *us* , it's plenty confusing to FFLs also. Each one has their personal threashold of how much confusion and BS they care to put up with . Just because somthing is Legal , or "probably legal " , or "might be legal " doesn't mean they Have to do so for you , and you can't make them beyond having your $$ vote with their feet.

Ticking Timebomb Alert

Maybe this should have been it's own thread , but at least I'm making this a seperate Post.

If alluded in passing a cpl times to this , but now is time to put this on pur Radar.

Not Disaprovals expire 30 day after issue.

On Oct2 there will be a crapload of handgun 77R's still in the pipeline.

It will take a long time after Oct1 for ( those inclined to do so ) to have actual HQL's .

Simply by the raw numbers , there will be plenty of people having a 77R ND go stale on them before they can sucuessfully have a HQL in hand.

What will MSP do in this regard ? Sit back and say Gottcha Sucka ? Stop processing the backlog until HQL is worked out , and actually issueing ? Somthing not not imagined by either them or us ?

Biggfoot44 said:

Maybe this should have been it's own thread , but at least I'm making this a seperate Post.

If alluded in passing a cpl times to this , but now is time to put this on pur Radar.

Not Disaprovals expire 30 day after issue.

On Oct2 there will be a crapload of handgun 77R's still in the pipeline.

It will take a long time after Oct1 for ( those inclined to do so ) to have actual HQL's .

Simply by the raw numbers , there will be plenty of people having a 77R ND go stale on them before they can sucuessfully have a HQL in hand.

What will MSP do in this regard ? Sit back and say Gottcha Sucka ? Stop processing the backlog until HQL is worked out , and actually issueing ? Somthing not not imagined by either them or us ?

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This may be why the Gov.(O' jackass) all of a sudden became interested in getting backlog caught up, he knows they will have to re-process all these apps once the NFD's expire due to log jam of HQL apps.

Basically, we are mushrooms that capture every strand of light we can on these new regulations. There are still a lot of unanswered questions.

"Lastly, you were born with several Rights if you were born in this country. The Right to bear arms, which is the 2nd Amendment, is one of them. Glad to know you recently became a "patron" of it. Ironic how people ignore their Rights until they finally decide to "exercise" them. If you think this is bad, the rest of your Rights are getting trampled too."

Fabsroman, Just a small quibble with this statement. The 2nd Amendment doesn't grant you the right to bear arms. You had it right when you said that as an American citizen, you were born with that right. The 2nd Amendment denies the Federal government from infringing upon that right.

Biggfoot44 said:

Maybe this should have been it's own thread , but at least I'm making this a seperate Post.

If alluded in passing a cpl times to this , but now is time to put this on pur Radar.

Not Disaprovals expire 30 day after issue.

On Oct2 there will be a crapload of handgun 77R's still in the pipeline.

It will take a long time after Oct1 for ( those inclined to do so ) to have actual HQL's .

Simply by the raw numbers , there will be plenty of people having a 77R ND go stale on them before they can sucuessfully have a HQL in hand.

What will MSP do in this regard ? Sit back and say Gottcha Sucka ? Stop processing the backlog until HQL is worked out , and actually issueing ? Somthing not not imagined by either them or us ?

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A friend of mine missed his 30 day window (MSP only gave his a week of the 30 days to pick up). The FFL got MSP to reset the clock within about a week, presumably for the NICS check? Of course, if they have to do this for everyone after Oct. 1, that's really going to create a lot more work.

VikingFan65 said:

"Lastly, you were born with several Rights if you were born in this country. The Right to bear arms, which is the 2nd Amendment, is one of them. Glad to know you recently became a "patron" of it. Ironic how people ignore their Rights until they finally decide to "exercise" them. If you think this is bad, the rest of your Rights are getting trampled too."

Fabsroman, Just a small quibble with this statement. The 2nd Amendment doesn't grant you the right to bear arms. You had it right when you said that as an American citizen, you were born with that right. The 2nd Amendment denies the Federal government from infringing upon that right.

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Not to quibble, I'm actually agreeing that you are born with these rights, but I believe the framer's of the Constitution acknowledged that these were God-Given rights bestowed on all of us.