DOJ Study: Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates

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  • cpo

    hmmm......
    Aug 3, 2018
    128
    Central Maryland
    The Department of Justice released the result of a 2016 study to determine where criminals obtained their guns, and what types of guns were used, when the guns were possessed during the commission of the offense. These are the highlights taken right out of the report. Are you shocked to see that 90% of the guns possessed during the commission of a crime weren't obtained through retail sources? And of that, only 1.3% of the retail-purchased guns were used in the crime. Yet it's becoming harder and harder for law abiding citizens to purchase them. "Gun Control" continues to target the retail purchase and regulation of firearms...yet that's not where the criminals are getting them. Remember the "Gun Show Loop Hole" that was supposedly allowing everyone to run umuck of the gun laws (there is no such loop hole, btw)? It seems that less than 1% of these criminals were in possession a gun purchased at a gun show.

    The full study is here: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

    I'm just venting... but criminals are criminals because they DON'T FOLLOW THE LAWS. So making MORE LAWS only impacts people like me who have to work really hard to follow them. On top of that, the laws that keep getting shoved into being, aren't even addressing 98% of problem.

    Let's stop making guns more illegal, and let's make MURDER illegal. Or we can make ROBBERY illegal. Or... oh wait.

    I'll leave you with this: Legally and responsibly armed citizens have, in a major way, been a POSITIVE for a peaceful society. They have stopped the senseless killing of others, protected themselves, and saved the lives of our men and women in Law Enforcement who are being aggressively targeted by some very bad people. Legally and responsibly armed citizens are a deterrent to criminal activity. Disarmed and helpless people are a target and a petri dish where the criminal element can thrive.
     

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    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    i wonder how many many violent acts were committed by those that committed prior violent acts and yet were not put or kept in jail for one reason or another? instead of background checks and firearms bans or restrictions and just hoping bad guys won't somehow find guns, how about we put and keep violent offenders in jail.
     

    Boats

    Beer, Bikes n Boomsticks
    Mar 13, 2012
    4,073
    Howeird County
    If only anti-2A types would actually listen to facts like this and every FBI statistic ever (you know, the data that states that there are more people killed with bare hands than rifles every year. Or the one where suicide by firearm is still the leading cause of death by firearm )

    Sadly, this and all other fact based statistics take a back seat to:

    "OMG, it looks just like the gun the military has, and I saw a movie where Bruce Swartzencockthrust killed, like, 500 people with that. Must ban, need safe space"
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    The table does not make sense.

    1.3% obtained from a retail source.

    But 90% did not obtain from a retail source.

    How did the other 8.7% obtain their???????
     

    paperwork351

    no error code for stupid
    Mar 7, 2008
    867
    Gaithersburg
    Probably hasn't changed much since the Wright-Rossi report Felons and Their Friearms by the National Institute of Justice NIJ in the Carter 70's. More revolvers most likely.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    I agree with the sentiments, but remember: unless criminals are manufacturing guns in the basement, they all came originally from a factory and through a legal sale somewhere. To be effective in stemming the flow of firearms to criminals, a much larger study would be required tracing each firearm back from the crime to the factory and look for commonalities. Unfortunately I don't see anyone doing the legwork to really identify the problem.
     

    Mr. Ed

    This IS my Happy Face
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2009
    7,899
    Edgewater
    i wonder how many many violent acts were committed by those that committed prior violent acts and yet were not put or kept in jail for one reason or another? instead of background checks and firearms bans or restrictions and just hoping bad guys won't somehow find guns, how about we put and keep violent offenders in jail.

    And this should be the focus of legislation.
     

    spoon059

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    5,337
    You all are missing the point. They want to make guns illegal. The ends justify the means. It doesn't matter who uses them or why... it just matters that guns are taken away, one at a time if need be.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    I agree with the sentiments, but remember: unless criminals are manufacturing guns in the basement, they all came originally from a factory and through a legal sale somewhere. To be effective in stemming the flow of firearms to criminals, a much larger study would be required tracing each firearm back from the crime to the factory and look for commonalities. Unfortunately I don't see anyone doing the legwork to really identify the problem.

    Disagree. There are no relevant variables at the factory or wholesale movement at all.

    What matters is the point at which the gun becomes illegally sold, stolen or possessed.

    Who is doing the straw purchases, any cohort more likely to be doing it for example? And how often they are prosecuted, and what sentenced they receive and serve would be. Under what conditions are retail stores or homes burgled. Those would be relevant.

    And most of all: what sentences are being given for illegal possession per se, illegal possession during a crime, and illegal guns used in crime.

    Nothing at the factory is relevant.
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    i wonder how many many violent acts were committed by those that committed prior violent acts and yet were not put or kept in jail for one reason or another? instead of background checks and firearms bans or restrictions and just hoping bad guys won't somehow find guns, how about we put and keep violent offenders in jail.

    The jurisdictions that have bothered to check (like Baltimore which used to check this and doesn't any more due to poltical pressure) this find, in the example of murder, on the order of over 90% of perps have prior arrest history and about 80% prior felony or ten or more arrests. Interestingly, not just perps, but victims have same numbers.

    If you are not a criminal your actual risk of being murdered in the US is in fact 1/10 if the published numbers.

    And you are right about keeping violent offenders in jail. Nationally over time, and by jurisdiction over space, the ONLY two consistent and established causal factors on violent crime are a) proportion of released criminals on the streets and b) education levels. Everything else has no effect. Guns per capita do not increase, but actually seem to slightly decrease violent came.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    Disagree. There are no relevant variables at the factory or wholesale movement at all.

    What matters is the point at which the gun becomes illegally sold, stolen or possessed.

    Who is doing the straw purchases, any cohort more likely to be doing it for example? And how often they are prosecuted, and what sentenced they receive and serve would be. Under what conditions are retail stores or homes burgled. Those would be relevant.

    And most of all: what sentences are being given for illegal possession per se, illegal possession during a crime, and illegal guns used in crime.

    Nothing at the factory is relevant.

    We are in violent agreement. Virtually all firearms are manufactured legally in a factory. They all are also shipped to a gun shop and purchased by a legal person at said gun shop. The info that would be instructional is to trace each firearm from that legal initial ownership condition to its ultimate use in a crime, and then focus future legislation on any common vectors encountered. I was never suggesting that the factory, or the gun shop, or the initial legal purchaser, were a factor in firearms used in crimes.

    For instance, if an objective study revealed that 80% of crime guns resulted from a burglary, I would support requirements to store firearms in a more secure manner. If the study revealed that crime guns originated from legal ownership of deceased persons, I would support requirements for formal inheritance chains. The trick is its very difficult to craft an objective study. Persons interested in funding such a study already have an answer they want to support their agenda. Absent such information, I would support a requirement that ANY new laws restricting the right to K&B be shown effective within 3 years or said law is auto repealed.

    To me fact base regulation is the ultimate "common sense"
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    To me fact base regulation is the ultimate "common sense"

    Principle outweighs your approach. Plenty of southern slave owners argued that it was a simple matter of fact that the southern economy only worked because of slave labor. You know, common sense. Abolitionists didn't argue about the math or the practicality, they argued about principle.

    FACT: Huge swaths of social media use involve vitriol, misinformation, and time-wasting nonsense. It's corrosive to our society. Simple common sense should take those frequently studied facts into account, and limit the First Amendment's protection of speech to include only approved, constructive speech that won't hurt anyone or their feelings. Right? Right.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    Principle outweighs your approach. Plenty of southern slave owners argued that it was a simple matter of fact that the southern economy only worked because of slave labor. You know, common sense. Abolitionists didn't argue about the math or the practicality, they argued about principle.

    FACT: Huge swaths of social media use involve vitriol, misinformation, and time-wasting nonsense. It's corrosive to our society. Simple common sense should take those frequently studied facts into account, and limit the First Amendment's protection of speech to include only approved, constructive speech that won't hurt anyone or their feelings. Right? Right.

    Now you've gone and given me something to think about. Let me cogitate on that a while.
     

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