Is there anything to prevent an 1898 firearm from being an antique?

lee2 · Jul 9, 2017

Other than NFA of course.

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Antique Firearms” means any firearm not intended or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

iH8DemLibz · Jul 9, 2017

It's a point of disagreement, but lots of folks won't sell antiques as antiques if modern/commercial ammunition is available.

.45-70 Govt., .30-40 Krag, etc.

I've had folks refuse to sell me Trapdoors. Which are clearly antiques.

lee2 · Jul 9, 2017

I'm currently at an impass with a seller who has two colts listed an 1883 antique no issues there, and an 1898 that he says must be shipped to an ffl.

iH8DemLibz · Jul 9, 2017

The antique cutoff date is 1-1-1899.

So any 1898 would be an antique.

Unless the seller is being a Douchenozzle.

somd_mustangs · Jul 9, 2017

Or it can't be positively determined it was manufactured in 1898?

lee2 · Jul 9, 2017

somd_mustangs said:
Or it can't be positively determined it was manufactured in 1898?

Colt kept excellent records and can be dated by serial numbers.

lee2 · Jul 9, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
The antique cutoff date is 1-1-1899.

So any 1898 would be an antique.

Unless the seller is being a Douchenozzle.

I'm beginning to suspect this. But maybe hes just covering his ass.

iH8DemLibz · Jul 9, 2017

Maybe the seller is just misinformed and thinks the cutoff date is 1-1-1898.

Lots of folks hate doing firearm law research.

lee2 · Jul 9, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
Maybe the seller is just misinformed and thinks the cutoff date is 1-1-1898.

Lots of folks hate doing firearm law research.

It's not written for the average joe.

BeoBill · Jul 9, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
Maybe the seller is just misinformed and thinks the cutoff date is 1-1-1898.

Lots of folks hate doing firearm law research.

Some people also have trouble with basic math.

mawkie · Jul 9, 2017

lee2 said:
I'm beginning to suspect this. But maybe hes just covering his ass.

Bingo Lee. I'd bet lunch this is driven by CYA. He has that option and that's the route he wants to take. Sadly it's kinda counter productive as antique sales are usually pretty brisk if the item is desirable. So many buyers appreciate not having to jump through hoops to purchase.

rseymorejr · Jul 9, 2017

You Don't have a C&R?
That would give you an almost 70 year buffer!

somd_mustangs · Jul 9, 2017

lee2 said:
Colt kept excellent records and can be dated by serial numbers.

Not sure on the SAA etc but the early semi's weren't built sequentially, and Colt only kept records on ship date, not "born-on" date.

So you may see a S/N shipped years after it was "made" according to the conventional S/N range - and that ship date is the only documentation for mfg date.

Regardless, agree the guy should just tell you why he won't ship as an antique...

Abulg1972 · Jul 10, 2017

lee2 said:
Other than NFA of course.

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Antique Firearms” means any firearm not intended or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Your lead-in says "other than NFA". Make sure you're thinking about the right statutory scheme. There is the Gun Control Act of 1968, and there's the National Firearms Act. Both have definitions of "antique firearm", which are not the same. The GCA applies to non-NFA items. The NFA's scope is limited. If you're talking about regular rifles and handguns, you're concerned only with the GCA.

The GCA's definition of "antique firearm" includes ANY non-NFA firearm that was made in or before 1898, regardless of whether it fires modern/commercially available ammunition. For example, a Chilean Mauser Model 1895 made in 1895 is an "antique firearm" even though 7x57 ammo is currently manufactured and available. I've had to fight with several sellers who misread Section 921(a)(16) and believe that a firearm isn't an "antique" if it can shoot available ammo. The ammo disqualification comes into play ONLY with respect to replicas of firearms made in or before 1898.

Boom Boom · Jul 11, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
Maybe the seller is just misinformed and thinks the cutoff date is 1-1-1898.

Lots of folks hate doing firearm law research.

That's my guess. Very common mistake, including on this forum.

Is there anything to prevent an 1898 firearm from being an antique?

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