MI: State and FBI stats under-report justifiable homicides

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  • K-Romulus

    Suburban Commando
    Mar 15, 2007
    2,430
    NE MoCO
    Just wanted to put this reference placeholder here in case others need to cite to it later.

    We've all heard the anti-gunowner movement claim that justifiable homicide numbers are "low," therefore "proving" that (1) gun ownership benefits are outweighed by the harm of homicides, etc., and also (2) self-defense statistics estimating 1.5M+ defensive gun uses are a "myth."

    A Michigan news website is doing a series on justifiable homicides in that state, trying to illustrate how people cope in differing ways with the aftermath of self defense. The series editor penned an intro to the series (linked below) that says everyone involved was surprised at how the reporters found that both state and FBI stats seriously under-report justifiable homicides.

    There is a good paragraph a little more than halfway in the piece that sums up this surprise, but I have to refrain from quoting it per the forum rules.

    Also - over half of justifiable homicides involved strangers; another data point against the anti-gunowner talking point of "very few cases of strangers attacking someone." And "Regular Joes" had more justifiable homicides than law enforcement.

    Here is the link to the intro: http://www.mlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/06/introducing_mlives_justified_t.html

    ETA: a link to the series home page - http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/justified_to_kill_blog_a_diges.html

    ETA2 6/12/12 - one whole article talks about how the FBI stats only report one justifiable homicide in one Michigan county over ten years, when actually there were EIGHT such justifiable homicides. The local police chief explained that a killing is initially coded as a "homicide" right away, but if it later is deemed justified the incident does not get recoded as such.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2012/06/justifiable_homicides_underrep.html
     
    Last edited:

    JMangle

    Handsome Engineer
    May 11, 2008
    816
    Mississippi
    Numbers are easy to cook, especially when the people you are trying to persuade are all hopped up on kool-aid.

    More reason why I'm glad that Gura never makes his arguments based on statistics.

    Also, when the number of justifiable homicides are high in a report, the antis claim that those are people killed who otherwise wouldn't have been killed if there was no CC. (Even if that is true, they don't mention that the people who end up dead are career criminals and violent types. -- every life is special and all that crap.)
     

    justiw

    Active Member
    Jan 26, 2012
    304
    These are incredibly interesting topics. Also interesting is that there is considerably different rhetoric in the T A&M research links. The research paper is very balanced in my view as to being cautious about jumping to conclusions. The quotes in the blog on the other hand, are considerably more divisive. So either the reporter is taking quotes out of context in order to produce additional controversy, or the co-author (the Professor) is more divisive than the primary author (the Student). I'm leaning toward the former.

    One thing is certain. The findings by MLive that the data is drastically mis-reported would invalidate the conclusions of the T A&M research. I think their methodology is pretty sound, but garbage in = garbage out.

    Another interesting thing that their data shows is that 1-2 years after castle doctrine, homicides go up. But 3-4 years after, the rates start to go down dramatically. It would be really interesting to see if that trend continues. These "growing pains" are pretty interesting, but if the long term benefits may far outweigh the short term consequences.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,765
    Yes it's true that they wouldn't be dead, but who's to say that the would be victim wouldn't have been killed instead had they not defended themselves with a firearm

    Yeah; like I said; other crimes would go up.

    I was being sarcastic by being overly literal.
     

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