Heller II trial court rules for DC 3/26/10

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  • Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,579
    Hazzard County
    Heller 2 does not require McDonald, it is DC-only so there are no incorporation questions and can be appealed immediately. The parties will probably be asked to submit supplemental briefs in light of McDonald, when it comes out in June.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    I'll buy dinners for Patrick & c&rdaze if I'm wrong...
    http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=25131&page=28

    2010 is going to be a great year...

    I like my McNuggets with honey.

    kharn said:
    Heller 2 does not require McDonald, it is DC-only so there are no incorporation questions and can be appealed immediately. The parties will probably be asked to submit supplemental briefs in light of McDonald, when it comes out in June.

    True, Palmer does not require McDonald. But if the District Court thinks McDonald might shed more light on the issues overall (per Krucam's view), then they might sit back a few weeks, like the various courts in Nordyke, Pena, et al. chose to do.

    A lot of cases are on hold nationwide pending McDonald; not all of them are strictly incorporation questions (although it is at the core of the cases). Some question carry provisions, gun show bans, handgun rosters...the gamut of issues facing guns today. It seems a lot of judges (including the an entire en banc from the 9th) are waiting to see what comes out.

    So yeah, it looks like more than Krucam think McDonald will be bigger, badder and (slightly) more uncut.

    Maybe Palmer holds to see what other questions might be answered by McDonald, even though incorporation is not at play in that case and both sides agree fully that Palmer is "ripe for summary judgment". Were I the judge, I'd wait to avoid having issues reheard after McDonald.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Good article. Unfortunately the author lost me here:

    ... The big change from the 2008 Heller decision might have simply been that D.C. law now requires that gun owners (primarily those owning long guns) only have to store their guns locked and unloaded if minors might have access to them. And it is probably this change that helps explain why D.C.'s murder rate fell by 25 percent the year after the handgun ban was struck down as unconstitutional.

    But also mentions elsewhere than only 0.2% of people in the district have guns. 0.2% does not make a good deterrence, if it did then the USA would need no more guns other than what already exists. Bad argument.

    And it completely tosses out some real honest police work done in DC over the last few years. I am not the biggest fan of Lanier, but she has done good work targeting known gang neighborhoods with all-day/all-night presence during the summer. Even the road blocks (constitutionally BS) delivered a strong message: we are in your hood and working to clean it up.

    Add gentification of previously run-down areas (SE DC, U Street, etc.) and you end up with a lot of reasons the murder rate went down.

    I think a more apt comparison would be the decrease in DC crime compared to an (anecdotal) increase in the same in PG and areas that border DC.

    But the case he mentions is going to get appealed and shot back down. It cannot stand rational test. DC just bought themselves time, that's all.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,533
    SoMD / West PA
    Gloating Over Court Ruling In ‘Heller II’ Reveals Brady Campaign’s Gun Ban Philosophy

    Washington, DC --(AmmoLand.com)- Following the dismissal of a second lawsuit against the District of Columbia by Dick Anthony Heller in U.S. District Court (his first lawsuit resulted in the 2008 Heller ruling), the Brady Campaign for the Prevention of Gun Violence was a little too quick on the trigger in its press release applauding Judge Ricardo M. Urbina’s decision.

    Brady Campaign President Paul Helmke, who has garnered quite a bit of self-created publicity lately in his war against Starbucks Coffee, admitted quite by accident that his organization still believes in banning entire classes of firearms, despite the 2008 Supreme Court ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller that such bans would not pass constitutional muster.

    But that doesn’t matter to the Brady Bunch. Their agenda has always been one of gun prohibition, not control. The kinds of controls they consider “common sense” are so Draconian in nature that they actually discourage firearms ownership, and lower the civil right to keep and bear arms to the level of a highly-regulated privilege.
    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/04/08/gloating-on-heller-ii-reveals-brady-campaigns-gun-ban-philosophy/
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    The Brady's are irrelevent.

    More rational post-Heller II is here:
    http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/07/dc-gun-regulations-upheld

    I like one of the comments, where it's mentioned that the word "infringed" is going to be needed to be spelled out. Reasonable, Intermediate, Strict scrutinies alone are obviously not working.

    Urbina took complelling National Interest from a Brady and from Chief Lanier. Hardly a fair representation when deciding the scrutiny in this case, Intermediate? Right...

    This one is ripe for appeal...probably post-McDonald. If McDonald doesn't spell out levels of Scrutiny or the word 'Infringed', this one will be waiting in the wings for additional clarification....

    Bring it on...
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Did I miss something in one of the MSI Newsletters??? Apologies if this was mentioned/announced, but I missed it...until today.

    Particularly, this:

    William J. Olson, P.C., Attorneys At Law

    Heller II, Amicus Brief Filed in Support of Appellants, U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia (July 30, 2010)
    On July 30, 2010, in the U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, our firm filed the only amicus curiae brief filed in support of the challenge by appellant Dick Heller and others to portions of the D.C. Code that (i) require registration of all firearms, (ii) prohibit registration of so-called “assault weapons” and (iii) prohibit possession of so-called “high capacity” magazines.

    Our brief argues that the District Court erred when it upheld the District’s laws employing “intermediate scrutiny” – a judicially created standard of review that permits laws that are “reasonably related to an important government interest.” Our brief demonstrates that the Supreme Court has rejected such “interest balancing” standards of review in both the Heller I and McDonald cases. Instead, once a court determines that a person is part of “the people” and that the weapon is one of the “arms” protected by the Second Amendment, the amendment provides its own standard of review — “shall not be infringed.”

    The brief then explained why the District has no jurisdiction to require a citizen to obtain a permit from the city to possess a firearm protected by the Second Amendment, and why the “assault weapons” and “high capacity magazines” which the District of Columbia seeks to ban are protected “arms under the Second Amendment, as provided in United States v. Miller (1939) and the Heller I decision.

    Our amicus brief in Heller v. District of Columbia, U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, No. 10-7036, was filed on behalf of:
    Gun Owners of America, Inc.
    Gun Owners Foundation
    Virginia Citizens Defense League
    Maryland Shall Issue, Inc.
    Gun Owners of California, Inc.
    Lincoln Institute for Research and Education
    Conservative Legal Defense and Education Fund

    Amicus Brief (MSI et al) July 30, 2010: http://www.lawandfreedom.com/site/firearms/HellerII_Amicus.pdf
    Kudos to MSI...Fantastic rebuttal to the Intermediate Scrutiny erroneously applied in the Spring ruling.

    Heller v. District of Columbia (aka Heller II) US Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit docket 10-7036
    http://dockets.justia.com/docket/circuit-courts/cadc/10-7036/
    http://www.lawandfreedom.com/site/firearms/
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    I hope Heller the best, but so far his representation seems lacking compared to his previous. Hope it doesn't break everyone else's cases.

    Still, we all owe the man a great deal.
     

    Sthomas229

    none
    MDS Supporter
    May 7, 2009
    6,666
    Laurel, MD
    Did I miss something in one of the MSI Newsletters??? Apologies if this was mentioned/announced, but I missed it...until today.

    Particularly, this:



    Amicus Brief (MSI et al) July 30, 2010: http://www.lawandfreedom.com/site/firearms/HellerII_Amicus.pdf
    Kudos to MSI...Fantastic rebuttal to the Intermediate Scrutiny erroneously applied in the Spring ruling.

    Heller v. District of Columbia (aka Heller II) US Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit docket 10-7036
    http://dockets.justia.com/docket/circuit-courts/cadc/10-7036/
    http://www.lawandfreedom.com/site/firearms/

    http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=41195
    We all miss something now and then:D
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    I'm having a few problems getting updates for this one uploaded to the Internet Archive (link is found in the link in my sig). Pacer, Firefox and Recap didn't work as far as automatically uploading to the Internet Archive, they just opened on my computer.

    So...I saved them and am posting here as attachments. I didn't include all of the Amicus Briefs filed in July, since they cost .08/page and they're available here: http://www.lawandfreedom.com/site/firearms/
    Thanks again MSI!

    The current Docket is in the DC_10-7036_Docket.txt file. This differs from the Internet Archive available here: http://ia301534.us.archive.org/2/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.132350/gov.uscourts.dcd.132350.docket.html
    which only covers through the April events.

    The various files referenced in the Docket document are in the single 2MB pdf, including the final 102 pages of "Corrected Appellant Brief" filed on 8/11/10 by the Appellants (Heller & Co).

    The 140 pg pdf is a very good read, particularly when read with the Docket and particularly the last 102 pgs from the Apellants.
     

    Attachments

    • DC_10-7036_Docket.txt
      18.5 KB · Views: 147
    • Heller2_filings.pdf
      2 MB · Views: 152

    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,909
    AA County
    Anyone want to summerize for those of us that can't read?

    {The condition is known as "lazious assious" and is often recognized by ones head bobbing forward, followed by low, guttural, nasal noises; when one tries to read more than one page of legalese.} :innocent0
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Briefs were due Aug 23 for the Appellees (DC) and Appellants (Heller). Heller's is in and is the final 100 pgs of the pdf.

    DC requested an 11-day extension for filing theirs (Sept 3) because 1) This case is important and 2) Their attorney is busy.

    DC requested "the Court should grant the District leave to file a statutory addendum that includes relevant, publicly available legislative history.

    Revised schedule is now:
    Appellees' (DC) Brief - September 3, 2010
    Amicus Curiae for Appellees' Brief - September 20, 2010
    Appellants' Reply Brief - October 4, 2010

    Appellants (Heller) Brief starts on pg 39 of the above pdf. This case is an appeal of the Spring loss which used Intermediate Scrutiny and used very iffy experts for their decision.
    They're arguing:
    II. THE REGISTRATION, EXPIRATION, AND RE-REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS VIOLATE THE SECOND AMENDMENT
    A. Heller Reaffirms Miller’s Premise that Second Amendment Protection Precludes Registration.
    B. A Person May Not Be Required to Register to Exercise a Core Constitutional Right.
    C. Registration Is Not a Traditional Regulation.
    D. Registration Has No Militia Purpose.
    E. Fees May Not Be Charged to Exercise Constitutional Rights.
    F. Rationing Pistol Acquisition to One Per Month.
    G. Fingerprints and Photographs.
    H. Ballistics Testing.

    STATEMENT OF ISSUES
    1) Whether strict scrutiny should be applied to determine the validity, under the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, of the challenged provisions of the District’s firearms laws.
    2) Whether the challenged registration requirements violate the Second Amendment.
    3) Whether the prohibition on “assault weapons” violates the Second Amendment.
    4) Whether the prohibition on “large capacity ammunition feeding devices” violates the Second Amendment.
    5) Whether the challenged registration requirements and the prohibitions on “assault weapons” and “large capacity ammunition feeding devices” are authorized by D.C. Code § 1-303.43.

    This is a close parallel case to Benson in Chicago as both are very broad in scope. This is risky IMHO.

    Heller II also makes a strong argument for Strict Scrutiny...this is also being done in other Circuits cases as well.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Yeah, this looks like the attorneys are tossing the kitchen sink at the court. Highly risky.

    They are asking the court to decide scrutiny on a whole range of questions, which opens the door to judicial averaging -- the court just creating a one size fits all approach that does not fit any. Off the top of my head, the large-cap issue is probably going to open the door to intermediate scrutiny, as will registration.

    The approach is amateur, even to my untrained eyes. These types of cases can do serious damage by creating case law only the Supreme Court can correct.
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Oral Arguments Scheduled!

    10/08/2010 Open Document CLERK'S ORDER filed [1270576] scheduling oral argument before Judges GINSBURG, HENDERSON, KAVANAUGH 11/15/2010 AM [10-7036]

    and earlier, but missed:
    09/29/2010 Open Document CLERK'S ORDER filed [1268704] granting appellant's motion to extend time to file reply brief [1268428-2]; [1248731-2] APPELLANT Reply Brief now due 10/18/2010 [10-7036]

    Appellant is Heller/Plaintiffs. We should have a brief from them by 10/18, before the 11/15 Oral Arguments. See my Post #36 above...
     

    Attachments

    • HellerII Oral Arguments Scheduled.pdf
      39.7 KB · Views: 138

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,912
    WV
    10/08/2010 Open Document CLERK'S ORDER filed [1270576] scheduling oral argument before Judges GINSBURG, HENDERSON, KAVANAUGH 11/15/2010 AM [10-7036]

    and earlier, but missed:
    09/29/2010 Open Document CLERK'S ORDER filed [1268704] granting appellant's motion to extend time to file reply brief [1268428-2]; [1248731-2] APPELLANT Reply Brief now due 10/18/2010 [10-7036]

    Appellant is Heller/Plaintiffs. We should have a brief from them by 10/18, before the 11/15 Oral Arguments. See my Post #36 above...

    I know Henderson was the lone vote against Heller in the first case(her logic was quite strange). What's the scoop on the other 2?
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    The Appellant (Heller, Plaintiffs) Reply Brief due 10/18/2010.
    10/18/2010 Open Document APPELLANT REPLY BRIEF [1271969] filed by William Carter, Dick Anthony Heller, Absalom F. Jordan, Jr. and Mark Snyder [Service Date: 10/18/2010 ] Length of Brief: 6,995 words. [10-7036]

    It re-argues the lower courts lax interpretation and scrutiny used. They're pushing for Strict Scrutiny. I believe they make a good (not great) argument against firearm registration (pgs 21-28 of the pdf), they also do a good job of arguing against the EBR/AW prohibition on pg 29 including talk of shoulder things that go up, etc.

    All and all a decent reply brief before the hearing in November. Worth the read and reason to be optimistic...
     

    Attachments

    • Appellant Reply Brief 18Oct2010.pdf
      198.4 KB · Views: 186
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