Original condition WWII rifle choices

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  • Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,351
    HoCo
    OK,
    I've only been into C&R for 5 years now and although I don't know everything, I sure know more than when I started. A person asked me last week when discussing a Mosin as the "inexpensive authentic WWII rifle". I forgot what prompted me to mention it but I said to him when discussing my Mosin Sniper and the scope, you know the ones you buy most likely were rebuilt and the parts are not likely to be the same that the rifle was in service with. I sort of understood this to be the case that Mosins were pulled apart and put back together again. I recall someone saying that just because the bolt matched the receiver, did not mean it was the original bolt. I recall that they would grind down the main bolt SN and restamp it later. Is that correct? I know nearly every Mosin I have something does not match the Reciever. Either an Iz Reciever with Tula barrel bands or a different bolt head. My Garand has rebuild marks, my Enfield No4Mk1 has the BSA stamp on it (rebuild right) and the upgraded rear sight. I think the only one that I"m pretty sure of is my Arisaka. Everything matches on that (ground mum). At $260 when I got it 3 years ago, I thought the Arisaka was a bargain for un altered "as it was" WWII rifle. I think my MAS 36 and possibly Italian Carcano might be unaltered also. Have not spent any time on them

    I would still think the Arisaka all matching w/ Mum scrubbed would be the economical choice of unaltered (dust cover removed does not count) WWII rifle

    What are the other possible "economical" WWII rifle choices which would be unaltered (as issued) condition?
    To qualify, it could not have been rebuilt post war.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,119
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Generally speaking, if the bolt for your re-arsenaled Mosin-Nagant was not the original, but has a matching serial number, the original serial number is struck-through. I'll snap a picture of one of mine when I get home. Otherwise, they were sometimes scrubbed and electro-penciled.

    As for the mum being scrubbed. That's technically refurbing. The generally accepted theory is that MacArthur demanded the scrubbing after surrender, so it's not exactly "as issued" in a technical sense.

    I'd say your best bet for WWII weapons are going to be the less popular ones that didn't see as much combat. A good example might be the M95/30 which is a refurb of a WWI rifle, but the conversion took place well before WWII. They were issued to rear-echelon troops and home-guard units during WWII by the Germans (hence most surplus ammo for them being Nazi marked). Outside of the chance that Century threw them all in a pile and mismatched bolts to guns, I seriously doubt they saw much in the way of refurbishment post-war given their obsolescence at that point. Chances are, if you have a M95/30, it's as it was issued during the war. They were a steal about 5 years ago (going for sub $80) but are more valuable now.
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,489
    Fairfax, VA
    You can get some Finnish Mosins in original configuration, as "original" as Finnish Mosins can be since they were parts guns recycling older parts.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,353
    Catonsville
    If you're wanting an inexpensive (relative term) rifle that had never gone through an arsenal refurb the choices get thin. But here's what I would start wtih...
    Japanese Arisaka Type 99 Substitute
    Japanese Arisaka Type 38 (WWII production, look for the front sight protectors, that's your tell that it's later production)
    British Enfield No4 MkI* - You can find No4s that haven't gone FTR but I'd say the majority have.
    French MAS36 - Any WWII vintage MAS36 still in original configuration (open front sight protectors and all milled parts) will have never been reworked. But these are starting to get expensive. Last decent example I saw sell on GB fetched around $500. Not Garand, Springfield or M1 Carbine prices but well above the $250 or so that I saw them sell for 10 yrs ago.

    Me, I think I'd go the Arisaka T38 route. I saw a nice T38 Calvary Rifle sleeper sell cheap recently as nobody knew what it was. Stick with the infantry or calvary rifle as the carbines are fetching way more money if in good condition and they're much harder to chase down.
     

    KH195

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 10, 2013
    1,552
    Virginia
    As already mentioned a bunch, Arisakas hands down in my opinion. The vast majority (as in almost all) here in the US were bring backs. Some were imported from China a number of years back and those will typically carry import marks, but compared to the total number of bring backs (estimated at over a million...literally) the imports are few and far between. Don't think you'll get nearly as wide a selection on the market plus low cost with anything else that's in "as it left the battlefield" condition and non-refurb. For what it's worth I don't mind ground mums and don't consider that a refurb by any means, at least when compared to something that's been refinished, had parts swapped, etc post war. Night and day difference to me. Even if a ground mum is that bothersome to someone it's not hard to find one with a mum intact for not that much more $.
     

    Ranchero50

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 15, 2012
    5,411
    Hagerstown MD
    My Aussie Enfield has a 6/45 arsenal refinish stamp on the stock. I don't think I'll find something closer to as issued (as issuable?) as that. Sadly the bolt doesn't match and somewhere along the line it was stamped DP. Head space passes military spec and looks newly refurbished otherwise.

    DSC02855.jpg~original
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,733
    .... For what it's worth I don't mind ground mums and don't consider that a refurb by any means, at least when compared to something that's been refinished, had parts swapped, etc post war. Night and day difference to me...

    Concur.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,173
    We're talking semantics , discussing and inherently hair splitting subject .

    From the context , most of the discussion revolves around " as originally manufactured " .

    But Ranchero mentioned " as issued " . Things can and were refurbished, rebuilt, modified , and even unintentionally screwed up , and subsequently * Issued * to a service member . And in that state would be " as issued " , if they were literally issued.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I like finn m39s. Approx 105 k made. Mosin 91/30...approx 14m.
    Seems like the bargain days are over. Jap. Last ditch are still often under $300.
     

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