Registration Problem

BlueHeeler said:

Ignorance of the law is almost understandable in this case. DC does not have a lot of C&R registration and the whole registration process is newish. I somewhat know the main registration officer, he has registered most of my guns. He is by the book so talk of bribes is fiction.

I am more annoyed with ATF. They wrote a subjective list of C&R guns and leave the citizens with the burden of proof a gun is more than 50 years old because they do not feel like making an inclusive list. I have emailed ATF twice this week to clarify because email is their preferred means of contact. No reply. AFAIK, if you are a .gov and do not reply with in 24 hours, your butt meets a lawnmower.

The Yugo is in MD hiding at the moment until I hear from ATF. I really do not want a illegal gun in the house.

With some luck I will be trying to register another C&R pistol that is on the list tomorrow. Details to follow.

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It must be a major frustrating endeavor for you in DC. Looking forward to your updates and hopefully your success. If your "other" C&R pistol is perhaps a P-64, it's clearly on the BATF's list of recently added (and unquestionably) C&R defined. Why the M57's are not also clearly defined on the BATF updates remains a mystery. No doubt many folks would be interested in why.

j8064 said:

It must be a major frustrating endeavor for you in DC. Looking forward to your updates and hopefully your success. If your "other" C&R pistol is perhaps a P-64, it's clearly on the BATF's list of recently added (and unquestionably) C&R defined. Why the M57's are not also clearly defined on the BATF updates remains a mystery. No doubt many folks would be interested in why.

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To be fair I have never had any problem registering in DC until now. It can be a bit of legwork, but not difficult. The only reason this is difficult is because ATF did not define the regs which DC follows.

I heard from ATF. They basically said they will not explain their regs, contact the DC attorney general. They also said to contact the ATF Field office for any further questions. Of course the link they sent for them was broken. I thought that was a nice touch.

This is the problem:
“Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age.”
Above is part of the definition of C&R, but there is no way to prove if it applies to an M57. I am certain a registry thread on a forum is not going to cut it. I find it difficult to believe every dealer/individual selling M57s is in violation of the law.

BlueHeeler said:

Ignorance of the law is almost understandable in this case. DC does not have a lot of C&R registration and the whole registration process is newish. I somewhat know the main registration officer, he has registered most of my guns. He is by the book so talk of bribes is fiction.

I am more annoyed with ATF. They wrote a subjective list of C&R guns and leave the citizens with the burden of proof a gun is more than 50 years old because they do not feel like making an inclusive list. I have emailed ATF twice this week to clarify because email is their preferred means of contact. No reply. AFAIK, if you are a .gov and do not reply with in 24 hours, your butt meets a lawnmower.

The Yugo is in MD hiding at the moment until I hear from ATF. I really do not want a illegal gun in the house.

With some luck I will be trying to register another C&R pistol that is on the list tomorrow. Details to follow.

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Out of curiosity, what other guns have you been able to register?

Darth Fabulous said:

Out of curiosity, what other guns have you been able to register?

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PM sent.

try contacting SOG or some other big dealers.

these were being sold dealer only when they were first imported, some months back suddenly everyone started selling them C&R.

im sure that wasnt just a coincidence, i would think someone at the big dealers, or someone they know, must have the first hand knowledge of how the determination was made, my guess is someone somewhere has an ATF letter saying these are indeed C&R eligible.


also, you said you emailed them, if i recall correctly however, the ATF only accepts questions etc about law in writing, and only sends them out in writing.

sometimes its all about asking the right questions, you should write to them and ask if they will verify that the yugo m57 pistol is indeed C&R eligible.

if you get a verifiable official ATF letterhead response that may do the trick.

certainly worth a try. goodluck.

Chaunsey said:

try contacting SOG or some other big dealers.

these were being sold dealer only when they were first imported, some months back suddenly everyone started selling them C&R.

im sure that wasnt just a coincidence, i would think someone at the big dealers, or someone they know, must have the first hand knowledge of how the determination was made, my guess is someone somewhere has an ATF letter saying these are indeed C&R eligible.


also, you said you emailed them, if i recall correctly however, the ATF only accepts questions etc about law in writing, and only sends them out in writing.

sometimes its all about asking the right questions, you should write to them and ask if they will verify that the yugo m57 pistol is indeed C&R eligible.

if you get a verifiable official ATF letterhead response that may do the trick.

certainly worth a try. goodluck.

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Good ideas that did not cross my mind. Thanks. I have not given up on the M57.

I found this comment on another site:
"UPDATE: Yugoslavian Tokarev M57 is now C&R eligible probably on the basis that Yugoslavia is no longer a county and firearms during the period are now "curios" by definition (similar to Czechoslovakia and East Germany). As a result I added this to the Tokarev collection. It came with an old beat up holster, a cleaning rod and a spare magazine (that only holds 8 rounds). The downside of course is that finding extra M57 magazines is nearly impossible."

JAGGUY said:

I found this comment on another site:
"UPDATE: Yugoslavian Tokarev M57 is now C&R eligible probably on the basis that Yugoslavia is no longer a county and firearms during the period are now "curios" by definition (similar to Czechoslovakia and East Germany). As a result I added this to the Tokarev collection. It came with an old beat up holster, a cleaning rod and a spare magazine (that only holds 8 rounds). The downside of course is that finding extra M57 magazines is nearly impossible."

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Ah ha, that makes sense.

while thats the general theory of why it'd be C&R i dont think thats the case, because if it was made C&R eligible based on that, then it would be on the list. things that are made C&R as curios, are put on the list, like the p64 and yugo SKS etc.

so it must be based on age in my opinion.