Need advice on clays gun...

About six months ago I was in the same place as the OP. I had started shooting some trap and sporting clays and was looking for a gun. I started with an older Remington 1100 Trap gun. It is nice, but I started shooting more trap and got completely hooked. Friends let me borrow their O/U guns and I had to have one.

I looked for several weeks and one Sunday at a Trap shoot, a guy had a Browning XT Trap for sale in the clubhouse. Couldn't resist and I bought it. Great gun. Really tight lockup, beautiful wood and wonderful balance. I added the Gracoil recoil reduction pad and I am set.

I would start by asking guys around at trap/skeet/sporting clays ranges. There are always guys looking to sell something and trade up. I got a great buy from a guy I knew who was looking to buy a Perazzi. There are deals out there on Brownings, Gueirnis, SKBs, and others. Find a gun that fits you and feels right. Enjoy the search.

Augie said:

Nk02442, the Guerini's are coming on strong,more and more of them are showing up at the ranges and doing well. They have now been in the country almost 10 years now and very few problems have been reported and when there is a problem Guerini is quick to fix it.
I own 3 now and the Impact my latest is an all around gun, very easy to adjust to shoot all the clay sports well. Really hard to beat the Impact if you want only one gun.
As far as holding value I follow used gun values pretty close and none of the high end guns are going for asking price right now, not much difference between a 5k Guerini that drops 1500 or a 10k Krieghoff that drops 3k,works out to the same percentage. Sellers over on Trapshooters are having to drop prices of most guns to get them to move.

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If you buy a $5K Guerini and sell it in 5 years you will get $2500-3000. I bought one for $3800 and sold it the next year in mint condition for $2800, a 34% loss. If you buy a $10K K80,and sell it in 5 years you will get your money out of it. If it's a high grade gun, you will make money on it. I've done this four times. My first K80 sporter, bought in 1995 for $8800 now sells for $18,000 new and if I still had that gun today I could get about $13K for it. That's not going to happen with a Guerini or similar mass produced gun, but you are also not shelling out big bucks to begin with.

I don't know what "coming on strong" equates to. Guerinis are decent guns and are finished better than any guns in their price range. They also have terrific factory support and are very owner friendly. That is what you have to do to break into that market and Guerini does it well. But, they are not anything unique and are basically just a well finished B. Rizinni. They are not innovative and are not built that strongly. You should note that they have also been banned, rightly or not, from use at Quantico because one blew up there.

Blackthorne, Sorry but i just don't see Krieghoff's selling for what the owner paid for them on Trapshooters right now,Maybe a 15 year old one but not a 2 year old one or a 2 year old Guerini. in this economy high end guns appear to be a tough sell right now.
As far as the blow up's every gun out there has blown up, several Krieghoff's were reported blown up on Trapshooters the last several years. The common thread was reloads being used which all manufacturers do not warranty their guns for. The Quantico report was total Bs, when the gun was sent out to a real lab the conclusion was faulty ammo,the owner was using reloads from a new PW press.
The Krieghoff's and Perazzi"s are very fine guns,maybe one day I'll own one but for right now the Guerini's serve me very well.

Well, perhaps I am speaking in generalities and from personal experience, but over the history of the K32/K80, they do appreciate in value. Any gun will take a big hit within two years and don't forget that in theses times of Obamanomics, values on many things are a bit stressed.
If kept for 5 years or so and kept in excellent condition, K&P guns have held their value over time. Gun markets, like any markets, have highs and lows. Some products retain value and some do not. The Krieghoffs and Perazzis are different animals in a couple of ways. They are built in small numbers and are always in demand. They are priced according to those demands and our ever falling dollar.

I would not judge values of guns based on one group of shooters, especially trap shooters. I've seen many of them shooting guns they simply can't afford. When they hit a bump in the road like today's economic conditions, they begin to sell their toys out of a need for cash. Some are willing to take big hits. This is not only true of pricy guns, but all guns.

So, where does this leave us? It leaves us with an opportuniy to buy a gently used Krieghoff at a bargain price. If I really wanted a Krieghoff today and didn't want to buy a new one, bargains can certainly be had on 1-2 year old guns.

Unfortunately, Trap is a dying sport. Look at the number of squads at the MD State Shoot in the last few years vs 10-15 years ago. You don't see many young shooters. Too bad.

Trap doesn't have the numbers it once had, that's for sure, but there are several reasons for it. Sporting clays has attracted many new shooters who would have, at one time, been trap shooters. The economy has also taken it's toll. Though the cost of shooting trap is much less than sporting given the same number of targets shot, most trap shooting shoot many more targets than sporting shooters shoot. Trap is ptretty much a two gun game, so equipment osts are higher. There has also been a decline, slowly but surely, in the number of trap clubs today as compared with 20 years ago. Some clubs can't afford to stay open, some are closed by neighbors, some by environmental concerns and others due to inhouse squabbling between members when multiple shooting disciplnes are in one club. That said, I don't think that trap is a dying sport. There are still more registered trap shooters than any of the other games. There's still much more money to be won in Trap than any of the other clay target games.

Yes, the numbers are down at the Maryland State Shoot, but that happened after they moved from Thurmont moreso than for other reasons. Thurmont drew hundreds of shooters from Central Pennsylvania. For the most part, these folks did not travel to Millington. This doesn't account for all of the attendance problems, but it's been a big part of the problem in Maryland.

All in all, this is part of the evolution of the shooting sports, some good and some not so good. Another part of that evolution in trap is the growth of league shooting in the Winter. That attendance has doubled over what it was 20 years ago and has kept many clubs alive.

I do hope it survives. I don't shoot as much as I used to, but need to get back into it. I keep saying I'm going to shoot the winter league every year, and never do. Maybe this year......

blackthorne said:

Well, perhaps I am speaking in generalities and from personal experience, but over the history of the K32/K80, they do appreciate in value. Any gun will take a big hit within two years and don't forget that in theses times of Obamanomics, values on many things are a bit stressed.
If kept for 5 years or so and kept in excellent condition, K&P guns have held their value over time. Gun markets, like any markets, have highs and lows. Some products retain value and some do not. The Krieghoffs and Perazzis are different animals in a couple of ways. They are built in small numbers and are always in demand. They are priced according to those demands and our ever falling dollar.

I would not judge values of guns based on one group of shooters, especially trap shooters. I've seen many of them shooting guns they simply can't afford. When they hit a bump in the road like today's economic conditions, they begin to sell their toys out of a need for cash. Some are willing to take big hits. This is not only true of pricy guns, but all guns.

So, where does this leave us? It leaves us with an opportuniy to buy a gently used Krieghoff at a bargain price. If I really wanted a Krieghoff today and didn't want to buy a new one, bargains can certainly be had on 1-2 year old guns.

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Where is a good place to find a "gently used Krieghoff at a bargain price?"

Redcobra said:

Where is a good place to find a "gently used Krieghoff at a bargain price?"

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Privates sales would always be the cheapest as long as you know the current prices and are familiar with the gun you want to buy. Of course, this means scouring different websites, local clubs and by word of mouth. Trapshooters.com is a great source. It's not limited to trap shooters. I see many different guns bought and sold there. Many guns are purchased after someone posts a WTB (want to buy) post.

What configuration would you be looking for?

Blackthorne, pretty much agree with what you have said, you are also spot on with your assessment of trap shooting. I also would not classify it as a dying sport , at some clubs this year I have noticed increased attendance and at Tuscarora for the Memorial weekend shoots they had over 20 squads in both 16 and caps,also noticed several very good young shooters. Cost is a factor and people just don't have the disposable income in this economy.
I like the social aspect of sporting but do not shoot it as much as I would like, usually go down to Pg in the middle of the week when i'm off and shoot a couple rounds, would like to get some pointers sometime as I have room for lots of improvement.
I am going to try the Vintagers at Pintail in Sept, will shoot it with one of my Fox's and a Husky hammer gun I just picked up, should be fun.
I am going to take a good look at the new KX-6 that is coming out at the Grand this year, might have to trade in one of my Guerini's, after all us Trap shooters know the next gun will be the one that breaks them all.

A little off topic- Trap is alive. Thurmont Conservation And Sportsman Club is having it second youth trap class. Had every available spot filled and a lot of them are girls. Don't think it's dying, just ignored.

Jeff

Augie,

In your neck of the woods, they also shoot some informal sporting at the IWLA in Poolesville and 5 Stand at Camp Kanawah. The Central Penn Club just north of Gettysburg is also quite active.

When I lived in Mt Airy and shot ATA stuff, Tuscarora, Mt Airy and Carroll Co were my usual places to shoot. All great clubs and very nice folks. I miss that.