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  • sailor

    Member
    Sep 20, 2007
    82
    Trying to renew my w/c
    Sites works with Chrome- good.
    That's the only thing good about it.

    Limited groups for permit: Business Owner, Assumed Risk (Govt, Elec officials), LEO, PI, Personal Protection/Other (they describe specific documented threats.)

    Your GSR? you have 2500 char to use. In word, I get 1/2 and page!

    I could upload ONLY what they asked for: Proof business exists, proof of business deposits, Photograph, proof of training.

    I can find NO WAY to enter any other information- support docs, explain things etc.

    If you are prevented from presenting your GSR fully and with proper documentation how are they supposed to properly investigate it?

    And what will happen when you try to appeal the GSR you never (could not) claimed in the first place? I smell a structured Catch-22 here.

    And the photo? Says a passport photo. But will not accept pdf. I scanned it into JPG- no good.

    Read the 45 page manual with font so small my mag glass could not even read it! I am supposed to load the image into a government site and then manipulate it to 2x2 inches, 600x600 pixels. Right, I can't wait to try that one.

    My thoughts-
    A great way to prevent people from applying.
    And only some can apply, and only some have the technical knowledge to apply.
    Then the MSP will take the short GSR and investigate what they do not understand, investigating however they want, to make the decision they want.

    Welcome to the brave new world.
    No wonder so many are moving out of state!
     

    frogman68

    товарищ плачевная
    Apr 7, 2013
    8,774
    Since MD likes to borrow web sites they should take Texas' LTC site easy and user friendly
     

    Mr. Ed

    This IS my Happy Face
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2009
    7,899
    Edgewater
    Sounds like it's designed to prevent poor folks (without access to computers), and non-computer literate folks from applying. Just the latest hurdle to prevent honest citizens from being able to defend themselves and their loved ones. Way to go Maryland. :mad54:
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    "Proof business exists".

    That one has always intrigued me. They do have internet access at the MSP correct? Aren't they Investigators? What is wrong with them doing a little (3 minutes worth) of looking to see if someone has a legal business?
     

    motorcoachdoug

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    hmm i smell a discrimination law suite here since it appears that the poor can not apply for a ccw and or it will not take the usual software items that are in use for the us gov and people who use computers every day ! They are trying to limit your G&S and no where in COMAR does it give permission to limit how you can present G&S to MSP..
     

    antco

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 28, 2010
    7,044
    Calvert, MD
    I understand the frustration, but .v1 - .v50 of most websites/apps/portals are complete garbage as the development continues based on user feedback. I use websites and portals for work that after three years of operation, are finally almost to the point of hitting the intended features and functionality. I won't go into specific examples of what I've encountered at my employer (in the business to provide a product and take your money), but I'll summarize my vague message with this pointed example: HSBC, the large credit card company, in Q4 2020, STILL does not provide the ability to make a credit card payment through their app. Go figure that one out.

    Do I believe MSP's website woes are malicious? No, I do not.
    Do I believe MSP has the motivation to improve the user experience? Likely not until some political pressure comes. Write letters with examples to your appointed dictators elected political leadership.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    MSP-LD is a bunch of vindictive schoolkid adults , they could not care if you have problems navigating thru the BS . The BS is put there so you have issues , they want you to trust them but they do stuff like this . SMH
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    There's pretty much zero chance that someone from the state procurement/contracting side of things sat down with the outside vendor(s) who work on this (and related) site features/apps and said to them: "Please make this hard to use so we can suppress gun ownership and carry permits." This smacks of the ALWAYS present underestimation of complexity, use cases, user variances around sophistication and platforms, and the utter lack of enough time and attention to do a decent QC job that turned into a workable punch list that the contractor still has budget/hours left to address. I have been working in this line of work for over 30 years. Do not assign to malice that which is explained by THE EXACT SAME POOR JUDGEMENT, LACK OF FORESIGHT, AND INABILITY TO ANTICIPATE HUMAN BEHAVIOR THAT MARKS EVERY SINGLE PROJECT LIKE THIS THAT'S EVER BEEN LAUNCHED, EVER.

    They'll return to it with more time and money and keep chipping away at usability, just like every single thing like this, every time. If this had been perfect out of the gate, it would have cost ten times as much. Would that have been worth it? Separate discussion. Just mentioning that anyone who thinks this is peculiar to the MSP/LD or who's taking this personally hasn't been around the block in this arena. It's wildly more the rule than the exception, and it's far more about budget and available time than it is about giving a damn, let alone some sort of vindictive agenda.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,536
    Columbia
    This is no different than the HQL. People testified that poorer people might not be able to afford it, MD doesn’t give two shits if that’s the case. They are putting it online to make it easier for THEM, not YOU.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    Here's a thought, I go to CVS to get photos taken because I've gone through the computer techie ******** of trying to size and crop photos on my own before. I always end up wasting hours and still end up with something that is less than expected. Now the MSP wants all of us to experience the aggravation.

    in the portal use instructions, they allow the applicant to complete the application then opt to mail a check for payment. If production of a digital photo is so ****ing easy, then why not let us mail the photo along with the check and they can convert it.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     

    kenpo333

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 18, 2012
    3,322
    Salisbury Maryland
    The site is too complex for the average person. Half our classes ask us to help because they don't want to deal with it or can't. It is a socio-economic discrimination. Many older people don't have email so not only deal with HQL and W&C. you have to have an email for the 77R
     

    Woody

    Active Member
    Oct 27, 2017
    107
    "Proof business exists".

    That one has always intrigued me. They do have internet access at the MSP correct? Aren't they Investigators? What is wrong with them doing a little (3 minutes worth) of looking to see if someone has a legal business?

    It isn't just about having a 'legal' business. It's more about verifying that you did more than file a few papers and became a business owner...of a business with no customers, revenues, or products.

    The guy that mows lawns and plows snow in his own name, or anyone else who runs a sole proprietorship may be hard for them to figure out much about in 3 minutes. Even corporation or other business ownership can be hard to verify.

    It seems they are trying to avoid people gaming the 'business owner' applicant category. Doesn't seem that onerous in that context... I disagree with anyone needing any special requirements by the way...just working with what they have said to me.
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    Are you suggesting one needs to have "customers" in order to be in a legitimate business? What about an NPO that collects donations or goods or money?

    How about a company who doesn't make withdraws or deposits at a bank?

    This is an example of we (gun owners in MD) have helped to make our bed. People seemed to think the correct way of applying included flooding them with useless paperwork, tax returns, receipts, notes, letters of recommendation, etc., etc.

    My thought process was to supply them with AS LITTLE as humanely possible. They are supposed Maryland's Finest, let them do the police work to find out if you're legit or not. Supplying them with everything but the kitchen sink is part of the way we've gotten to where we are now.
     

    cowboy321

    Active Member
    Apr 21, 2009
    554
    Sounds like it's designed to prevent poor folks (without access to computers), and non-computer literate folks from applying. Just the latest hurdle to prevent honest citizens from being able to defend themselves and their loved ones. Way to go Maryland. :mad54:

    I recently threw away the MD application to buy a new hand gun. Wasted $50 getting finger printed. The form was too much of a hassle. So, I tossed it in the trash can after 1/2 an hour. What do people without Computers do?

    Working as intended!!
     

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