I don't know MD law

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  • gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,176
    Mt Airy
    And I may have just given a friend bad advice. I should probably correct that before someone gets in trouble.

    I stopped paying close attention to all of the details when the mental gymnastics required to determine what was legal and what wasn't got out of control.

    I thought that after 2013 the sale of "assault weapons" was illegal, but it was still OK to possess/shoot/enjoy the ones you had. This is correct...yes?

    danb's post (https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=5625001&postcount=26) pointed out to me that the 2013 purchase date would apply to out of state guns too, but in reality, how would this be applied? Since an AK is cash and carry in VA and could be purchased face to face, how would anyone know when it was purchased? Can someone out of state be arrested/have their gun impounded until they can prove when it was purchased? Someone in state? How does the State prove when possession took place, or do they need to?

    I found a Wiki page on MD laws, but it sounded over simplified. I guess my issue is that I'm not familiar with the nuances of FSA2013. I know (at least I believe I do) that an assault weapon by MD's definition is a weapon with 2 or more features...but I'm not aware of all of the qualifying features, and I'm not aware if there is an overall length requirement. If someone could point those out to me, I'd appreciate it.

    I'm not very concerned with "pistols" and braces, since I know that the laws on those are even more arduous, and my brain is tiny and weak.

    I looked back a ways to find some old threads on the topic, but I figured with time comes more understanding, and some of that info might be out of date. Hence the new thread. Thanks in advance.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    The state won't take any action unless they have reason to believe it was purchased out of state after 2013. However, if they do, one would need to prove the date of purchase to defend themselves. Also, would need to prove when they moved to MD, if it was legal but regulated prior to 2013.

    That's my opinion, not legal advice.
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,555
    The state won't take any action unless they have reason to believe it was purchased out of state after 2013. However, if they do, one would need to prove the date of purchase to defend themselves. Also, would need to prove when they moved to MD, if it was legal but regulated prior to 2013.

    That's my opinion, not legal advice.

    Wrong, the prosecution has to prove that the purchase occurred after 10/2013.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Chances are they wont arrest you for X, unless you are being a dick to the police officer. They want to get you for X,Y,Z,P,D,Q,A,B,C then have to plead down to X and maybe Y.

    Yes, if they really had a bug up their ass they could go through your bank records. Most people pay with credit or debit card. Or maybe trace it through the ATF. There are not any records of the 4473, except that there are, am I rite?

    I would venture that 80% of what people have and would want to bring to a competition or for fun are the common rifles, AK and non-HBAR AR15s. The features test and OAL test (29") is on the MDSP licensing website.

    Also, keep in mind, you are guilty until proven innocent. Your property, not so much. They can hold your property without actually charging you, and the legal fees to get it out of jail potentially wont be worth the rifle.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,176
    Mt Airy
    Can’t do ftf across state lines. Must go through an ffl if crossing a state line.
    There's no talk of sales here.
    Also, would need to prove when they moved to MD, if it was legal but regulated prior to 2013.

    That's my opinion, not legal advice.
    I'm concerned with out of stater's just coming to MD to shoot...not moving here.
    And the sad part is that the entire time the state is trying to prove you bought it post 10/13, you are paying attorney fees. Even when you win you have lost
    I am very concerned with this, which is why I was curious if there was any new info in the past couple years. Anyone know of anyone hassled for FSA2013?
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,176
    Mt Airy
    . The features test and OAL test (29") is on the MDSP licensing website.
    Found the info on "Copycat weapons", which I'm sure covers "assault weapons" as well

    https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Documents/2014CopycatWeapon.pdf


    Also, keep in mind, you are guilty until proven innocent. Your property, not so much. They can hold your property without actually charging you, and the legal fees to get it out of jail potentially wont be worth the rifle.
    Right, which goes back to my question if anyone knows any incidents like this. I don't remember hearing about any here. Doesn't mean it won't happen though.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Yes, there have been a few incidents where Sheriffs confiscated rifles (as part of a separate investigation I think) and would not hand them back for years because they claimed that they were banned. The few times I am thinking about the owner eventually got them back, but it was years. There may be a thread or two around here about them. If you go back to last year, this was a big fear related to the Red Flag law. There was a legend in 2013/2014 shortly after FSA2013 was passed that MDSP "discovered" (maybe via the ATF) banned rifles were sold to MD residents from a VA FFL. State Troopers showed up and made the owner register them.

    But at the same time, no RSO is going to turn you in either. Drive safe and obey traffic laws, just saying.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    If the rifle was mfg / imported After 10/01/ 2013 , opps !
    If you weren't of proper age before 10/01/ 2013, opps !
    If you have been continous legal resident of MD , there isn't a corresponding 77R for it, opps ! Unless -
    The gun pre dates 10/01/ 1996
    You were proper age before 10/01/ 1996

    If having been legal resident of Free America after your becoming of proper age, subsequently establishing Md Residency before 10/01/ 2013 , the rifle must have mfg/ import, And initial sale on a 4473 within the relevant time window .
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    If the rifle was mfg / imported After 10/01/ 2013 , opps !
    If you weren't of proper age before 10/01/ 2013, opps !
    If you have been continous legal resident of MD , there isn't a corresponding 77R for it, opps ! Unless -
    The gun pre dates 10/01/ 1996
    You were proper age before 10/01/ 1996

    If having been legal resident of Free America after your becoming of proper age, subsequently establishing Md Residency before 10/01/ 2013 , the rifle must have mfg/ import, And initial sale on a 4473 within the relevant time window .

    Let’s just leave it at it being a stupid idea. Can MSP or local police prove it or the DA? Maybe not. Can you prove you did legally own it before 10/2013. If you can’t then you are playing stupid games.

    If you did move here you’d need to register it.

    There are many ways as Bigfoot linked to where it’s trivial for police to prove you can’t legally possess it. Other times it could be hard for them to prove. That doesn’t mean they might not try. Especially if they are stopping you for something else.
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    Given the obvious ways to do dumb things, lots of out of state people are bringing rifles in to shoot at competitions without any issues.

    They need to either be an HBAR, or purchased before 2013. Most are I would suspect. If not, and it doesn't meet any if the oops criteria quoted earlier, it would be very hard for the state to prove and that an out of state gun was banned.

    Under normal circumstances I just wouldn't worry about it.
     

    GTOGUNNER

    IANAL, PATRIOT PICKET!!
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 16, 2010
    5,492
    Carroll County!
    There's no talk of sales here.

    I'm concerned with out of stater's just coming to MD to shoot...not moving here.

    SNIP

    This was a concern when fsa2013 passed. If I recall correctly, NO. Can't bring a banned gun here to shoot. Doesn't matter when you bought it. Moving here is a different story. Federal law allows the banned firearm to be transported through PR Maryland. But that's it.
    Someone may say I am wrong, but I don't think so.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,691
    HBAR=OK
    I think.

    What's your friend got?
     

    ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,509
    Where they send me.
    OP, this from your first post and is talking sales, "Since an AK is cash and carry in VA and could be purchased face to face, how would anyone know when it was purchased?"

    Said sale would be illegal and so isn't going to help in one's defense if it comes to that.
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    This was a concern when fsa2013 passed. If I recall correctly, NO. Can't bring a banned gun here to shoot. Doesn't matter when you bought it. Moving here is a different story. Federal law allows the banned firearm to be transported through PR Maryland. But that's it.
    Someone may say I am wrong, but I don't think so.
    No no no as long as bought pre FSA 2013 you can bring it in to shoot here.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,176
    Mt Airy
    OP, this from your first post and is talking sales, "Since an AK is cash and carry in VA and could be purchased face to face, how would anyone know when it was purchased?"

    Said sale would be illegal and so isn't going to help in one's defense if it comes to that.

    No it isn't. It is referencing a legal sale between two VA residents as a hypothetical situation where proving purchase date would be difficult.
     

    Brychan

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    8,391
    Baltimore
    OP, I feel your pain, even those who wrote Maryland firearm laws, don't understand them and couldn't give you a straight answer.
     

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