Transporting long guns in vehicles

From what I understand, transporting rifles or shotguns in vehicles in Maryland is treated differently than transporting handguns in vehicles (ie. you don't need to be traveling to/from a range, gun shop, hunting, etc).

So my question is, what are the laws regarding keeping a shotgun or other long gun in my vehicle as protection? Could I keep one on the floor of the back seat to use in case of a "problem" of some sort? I'm fairly sure I couldn't keep it loaded but I could have ammo readily available should the need arise.

Anyone know the specifics on this???

There does seem to be a gray area (but I'm not a MD lawyer).

There is a fish & game statute that says shotguns and handguns must be unloaded, and rifles "to include the magazine."

With MD's partial preemption, localities can restrict possession of all firearms within 100(?) yards of parks, churches and "other places of public assembly." MoCO (of course) has a law banning all possession in such a zone unless transporting it unloaded in a the trunk of a car actually driving along a public road. I can get links up later for these laws..

AKbythebay said:

From what I understand, transporting rifles or shotguns in vehicles in Maryland is treated differently than transporting handguns in vehicles (ie. you don't need to be traveling to/from a range, gun shop, hunting, etc).

So my question is, what are the laws regarding keeping a shotgun or other long gun in my vehicle as protection? Could I keep one on the floor of the back seat to use in case of a "problem" of some sort? I'm fairly sure I couldn't keep it loaded but I could have ammo readily available should the need arise.

Anyone know the specifics on this???

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No matter what I may get wrong in my assumptions about the law, it is almost definite you cannot have a loaded rifle, handgun or shotgun loaded in or on the vehicle int he state of Maryland, even on private property (with a few rare exceptions like a carry permit holder that has a loaded handgun).

(c) (1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.

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I am not sure, bhut I think another exception is that you can have a loaded handgun in or on a vehicle while on your private property because this is in 4-203:

(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

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Note, there does not seem to be an exception for loaded rifles and shotguns in or on a vehicle even on private property, just handguns.

The section of state law that regulates the wearing carrying and transport of guns (4-203) only applies to non-antique handguns:

4-201 definitions
(c) (1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.


(2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.


(3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.

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Section 4-203 does not restrict the carry, wearing or transport of rifles or shotguns (except SBR and SBS). So therefore there is no state law I am aware of that restricts, regulates or addresses the carry, wearing or transporting of unloaded rifles in vehicles, or the carry or possession of loaded rifles and shotguns when not hunting.
So as I understand it, there are no state laws that say you cannot have a trunk rifle as long as it does not have any ammo in it, and there is no state law keeping you from carrying a loaded rifle while walking.
The one exception to this I can find is if there is a public demonstration and a police offcer asks you to leave. At that point you must stay a thousand feet from the demonstration.


Now having a rilfle under the seat unloaded or not and unlocked may fall under the dangerous weapons section because it might be possible to argue it to be a weapon and concealed:

§ 4-101.
(a) (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.


(2) "Nunchaku" means a device constructed of two pieces of any substance, including wood, metal, or plastic, connected by any chain, rope, leather, or other flexible material not exceeding 24 inches in length.


(3) (i) "Pepper mace" means an aerosol propelled combination of highly disabling irritant pepper-based products.


(ii) "Pepper mace" is also known as oleoresin capsicum (o.c.) spray.


(4) "Star knife" means a device used as a throwing weapon, consisting of several sharp or pointed blades arrayed as radially disposed arms about a central disk.


(5) (i) "Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku.


(ii) "Weapon" does not include:


1. a handgun; or


2. a penknife without a switchblade.


(b) This section does not prohibit the following individuals from carrying a weapon:


(1) an officer of the State, or of any county or municipal corporation of the State, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the officer's official equipment, or by any conservator of the peace, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the conservator's official equipment, or by any officer or conservator of the peace of another state who is temporarily in this State;


(2) a special agent of a railroad;


(3) a holder of a permit to carry a handgun issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article; or


(4) an individual who carries the weapon as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case.


(c) (1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person.

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However, subsection 4-101 above only applies to concealed dangerous weapons and openly carried ones with intent to unlawfully injure. In other words, unless you are on your way to murder someone, if you have the unloaded rifle in your vehicle in plain view then you are definitely not violating subsection 4-101 because it is not concealed.

Now there are local laws too, but they are questionable because there are at least two state preemptions on the issue. Here is one:

§ 4-209.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, the State preempts the right of a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district to regulate the purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of:


(1) a handgun, rifle, or shotgun; and


(2) ammunition for and components of a handgun, rifle, or shotgun.


(b) (1) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the purchase, sale, transfer, ownership, possession, and transportation of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section:


(i) with respect to minors;


(ii) with respect to law enforcement officials of the subdivision; and


(iii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, within 100 yards of or in a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly.


(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the teaching of or training in firearms safety, or other educational or sporting use of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section.


(c) To the extent that a local law does not create an inconsistency with this section or expand existing regulatory control, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may exercise its existing authority to amend any local law that existed on or before December 31, 1984.


(d) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, in accordance with law, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the discharge of handguns, rifles, and shotguns.


(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the discharge of firearms at established ranges.

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SOme people argue that the hunting restriction says you cannot have even a loaded detachable mag in the car with the rifle, but I think that is wrong (I am not a lawyer). The hunting law reads to me an internal magazine be it integral or attached into the rifle. So as I read it, you can have loose rounds, feeding clips, or loaded detachable mags next to the rifle while in or on the vehicle as long as none are in the rifle by just going by state law.
So the summary is:
Having the unloaded rifle concealed and within reach is questionable, but to have it openely seen and within reach seems to be legal.
To have loaded detached mags is questionable (to some), but it is extremely hard IMO to argue that stripper clips are prohibitted by the strict reading of the law and loose rounds are not even mentioned.
So, it seems apparent to this non-lawyer, that there is no doubt that you can have an unloaded rilfe openly sitting next to you in your vehicle, unlocked and with loose rounds within reach and you are not in Montgomery county, Baltimore city and one or two other places with local ordinances.
To me, as a non lawyer, the other scenarios besides, an unloaded trunk gun, are somewhat questionable and the local ordinances restricting transport and carry are suspect in their legality.

K-Romulus said:

There does seem to be a gray area (but I'm not a MD lawyer).

There is a fish & game statute that says shotguns and handguns must be unloaded, and rifles "to include the magazine."

With MD's partial preemption, localities can restrict possession of all firearms within 100(?) yards of parks, churches and "other places of public assembly." MoCO (of course) has a law banning all possession in such a zone unless transporting it unloaded in a the trunk of a car actually driving along a public road. I can get links up later for these laws..

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There is also a preemption of regulated firearms too

§ 5-133.
(a) This section supersedes any restriction that a local jurisdiction in the State imposes on the possession by a private party of a regulated firearm, and the State preempts the right of any local jurisdiction to regulate the possession of a regulated firearm.

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So if you have a regulated rifle, it seems to me as if both preemptions together keeps the local ordinances from banning the possession of an AR15 within 100 yards of public parks, churches or whatever.
So it may be possible for local jurisdictions to ban the possession of an unregulated rifle within 100 feet of a church, but it seems as if they cannot do so with a regulated rifle.

novus collectus said:

No matter what I may get wrong in my assumptions about the law, it is almost definite you cannot have a loaded rifle, handgun or shotgun loaded in or on the vehicle int he state of Maryland, even on private property (with a few rare exceptions like a carry permit holder that has a loaded handgun).
I am not sure, bhut I think another exception is that you can have a loaded handgun in or on a vehicle while on your private property because this is in 4-203: Note, there does not seem to be an exception for loaded rifles and shotguns in or on a vehicle even on private property, just handguns.

The section of state law that regulates the wearing carrying and transport of guns (4-203) only applies to non-antique handguns:
Section 4-203 does not restrict the carry, wearing or transport of rifles or shotguns (except SBR and SBS). So therefore there is no state law I am aware of that restricts, regulates or addresses the carry, wearing or transporting of unloaded rifles in vehicles, or the carry or possession of loaded rifles and shotguns when not hunting.
So as I understand it, there are no state laws that say you cannot have a trunk rifle as long as it does not have any ammo in it, and there is no state law keeping you from carrying a loaded rifle while walking.
The one exception to this I can find is if there is a public demonstration and a police offcer asks you to leave. At that point you must stay a thousand feet from the demonstration.


Now having a rilfle under the seat unloaded or not and unlocked may fall under the dangerous weapons section because it might be possible to argue it to be a weapon and concealed: However, subsection 4-101 above only applies to concealed dangerous weapons and openly carried ones with intent to unlawfully injure. In other words, unless you are on your way to murder someone, if you have the unloaded rifle in your vehicle in plain view then you are definitely not violating subsection 4-101 because it is not concealed.

Now there are local laws too, but they are questionable because there are at least two state preemptions on the issue. Here is one:

SOme people argue that the hunting restriction says you cannot have even a loaded detachable mag in the car with the rifle, but I think that is wrong (I am not a lawyer). The hunting law reads to me an internal magazine be it integral or attached into the rifle. So as I read it, you can have loose rounds, feeding clips, or loaded detachable mags next to the rifle while in or on the vehicle as long as none are in the rifle by just going by state law.
So the summary is:
Having the unloaded rifle concealed and within reach is questionable, but to have it openely seen and within reach seems to be legal.
To have loaded detached mags is questionable (to some), but it is extremely hard IMO to argue that stripper clips are prohibitted by the strict reading of the law and loose rounds are not even mentioned.
So, it seems apparent to this non-lawyer, that there is no doubt that you can have an unloaded rilfe openly sitting next to you in your vehicle, unlocked and with loose rounds within reach and you are not in Montgomery county, Baltimore city and one or two other places with local ordinances.
To me, as a non lawyer, the other scenarios besides, an unloaded trunk gun, are somewhat questionable and the local ordinances restricting transport and carry are suspect in their legality.

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I was waiting for you to chime in Novus. I can always count on you for clear, complete, and thorough answers to all MD firearm legal questions. And you should get your law license immediately.

The only part of what you said that I'm not sure about is open carrying of a loaded rifle or shotgun. Are you saying I could walk through a shopping mall or a city street with a loaded rifle on my arm??? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just can't imagine that there's no law preventing that.

The section of state law that regulates the wearing carrying and transport of guns (4-203) only applies to non-antique handguns:
Quote:
4-201 definitions
(c) (1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.


(2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.


(3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.


>>>Novus, does this mean you are allowed to carry a C&R gun? How do they define antique? Can I conceal carry a loaded antique gun on my person? Can I open carry a loaded antique gun on my person?

AKbythebay said:

I was waiting for you to chime in Novus. I can always count on you for clear, complete, and thorough answers to all MD firearm legal questions. And you should get your law license immediately.

The only part of what you said that I'm not sure about is open carrying of a loaded rifle or shotgun. Are you saying I could walk through a shopping mall or a city street with a loaded rifle on my arm??? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just can't imagine that there's no law preventing that.

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There is no state law preventing that I can tell. There is nothing I have seen in the hunting section I have perused somewhat, and there is nothing in the criminal law, or public safety articles that I keep reading on the crapper that I have ever seen.
There are however some ordinances in Baltimore city, Mo and PG cos though.
There is also some "hunting" laws on the books saying one cannot be on another's private property with a loaded firearm without written permission (AA Co even has a specific wording of the permission in the law), so one may argue that you cannot walk into a mall with a loaded rifle without written permission in AA Co if it is an unregulated rifle, but there doesn't seem to be anything I have read that says you cannot walk down the streets of AA county with a loaded rifle. I have not looked completly at AA county ordinances though.
Annapolis is a totally different story though, but then there are doubts if Annapolis ordinances, or Mo, PG or Balt ordinances violates state preemptions in some parts.

AKbythebay said:

The section of state law that regulates the wearing carrying and transport of guns (4-203) only applies to non-antique handguns:
Quote:
4-201 definitions
(c) (1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.


(2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.


(3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.


>>>Novus, does this mean you are allowed to carry a C&R gun? How do they define antique? Can I conceal carry a loaded antique gun on my person? Can I open carry a loaded antique gun on my person?

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A C&R gun? No, unless the C&R was made before 1899 it is not an antique. . And the only way an antique might be classified as a C&R is I think is if it is an NFA device.
The term "antique" usually means completely unregulated or uncontrolled.

Ok, as I read it, and with some parts of a test case before the Maryland Court of Appeals, it seems possible that you can walk around openly with a loaded antique pistol because there seems to be no state law against it, but the problem with this is that the state preemptions does not seem to apply antique handguns (but may apply to antique long guns), so local ordinances prohibbiting the carry of loaded handguns would probably still apply. SO I would not try doing this in places like Mo Co and Baltimore (although the one test case I refer to was in Mo Co, but it may not have been addressed because the DA was sloppy).

THis is the definition of antique in 4-201:

§ 4-201.
(a) In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.


(b) "Antique firearm" means:


(1) a firearm, including a firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar ignition system, manufactured before 1899; or


(2) a replica of a firearm described in item (1) of this subsection that:


(i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or


(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

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Note: This is the same definition as the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 and so a firearm made before 1899 that can fire commercially available centerfire ammunition is still an antique in MD.

Can't you just imagine thousands of Marylanders walking around with flint lock pistols on their hips. I would love that. It would show everyone how rediculous MD gun laws are.

One way to avoid the handgun firearms laws in MD is to have a rail/coil/gauss gun because most of the laws are geared to firearms and air guns, not other devices.

Here is an example of what is possible in a handgun size:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAcjPDa14rI

Carbine size:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjMTffRav-I

And here is an example at the power possible someday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m86gK-EOEsQ

This subject was discussed rather thoroughly in a thread on this site last April, here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=1201&highlight=hunting+thatisafact

To summarize: I am not a lawyer, and what follows is not legal advice. I do not believe that the statute cited by novus collectus, 10-410(c), should be interpreted as a general statewide prohibition on carrying loaded, non-concealed long guns in vehicles.

§ 10-410 is titled, "Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally." The subsection cited by novus is, "(c) Hunting from vehicles." If you were driving down main street in a city with a loaded shotgun on the rack, I doubt that you could be convicted under this hunting law. I believe that the general constitutional prohibition that a criminal law must give clear warning of what behavior is criminal should preclude such a prosecution in any context in which a prosecutor could not put forthward a plausible claim that hunting might have been involved.

I could be wrong. If you were convicted of an offense under 10-410(c), then for the first offense, you could receive a penalty of up to $1,500 fine. A subsequent violation, within two years, carries a penalty of up to one year imprisonment and/or a fine of up to $4,000. I think I have read that you could also lose your hunting license, if you have a hunting license, but I have not actually looked that up.

I repeat my invitation for anybody out there to cite a single case, in any jurisdiction in the state, in which 10-410(c) has been construed by any court to prohibit having a loaded long gun in a vehicle, outside a context that could plausibly be construed as hunting, poaching, etc. Really, I would be interested. I posed this invitation in the April thread, and nobody has produced such a case.

Under novus' interpretation of the law, every police car and sheriff's car in Maryland that contains a loaded shotgun is in violation of 10-410c, because 10-410 contains no exception for the police. As far as I am aware, there is nothing in Maryland law that gives enforcement officers blanket immunity from firearms-related laws. That is why, in various specific Maryland statutes dealing with firearms, one usually finds explicit exceptions for LEOs. For example, the general anti-carry law (Section 4-203) has such an exception. So does Section 4-208 (generally prohibiting possession of a firearm at a public demonstration), and there are other examples. Yet, the hunting statute, which novus (among others) reads so broadly, contains no such exception. I say that the legislature understood that no such exception was necessary, because it is a hunting law, and clearly does not apply to the police driving through, let's say, Bethesda. (However, the law would apply to a policeman who was hunting, even if he was hunting from a police car.)

I am not advocating carrying loaded long guns in your vehicle. I don't do that. But no one has yet persuaded me that it would be a violation of state law to do so. It would, clearly, violate local ordinances in some jurisdictions.

Give it time, they'll get to those too. MD just made the AWOL (alcohol without liquid) machines illegal and I've never seen one.

novus collectus said:

One way to avoid the handgun firearms laws in MD is to have a rail/coil/gauss gun because most of the laws are geared to firearms and air guns, not other devices.

Here is an example of what is possible in a handgun size:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAcjPDa14rI

Carbine size:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjMTffRav-I

And here is an example at the power possible someday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m86gK-EOEsQ

Click to expand...