The applicants at these last three meetings clearly have never heard of MDS and/or followed the threads.
Hopefully Ed or a well prepared applicant can show them the error of their ways.
Maybe.
HPRB July 22, 2019 Meeting Thread
- Thread starter Not_an_outlaw
- Start date
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The applicants at these last three meetings clearly have never heard of MDS and/or followed the threads.
Hopefully Ed or a well prepared applicant can show them the error of their ways.
Maybe.
Never said that being prepared will absolutely change the outcome. It *might* improve your chances a hair.
It's the same looser restrictions they tried to give to every permit holder that appealed to the last board. They stopped when the applicants said thanks but I am still appealing these vague restrictions.
Yes, very interesting. If they couldn't do it (Previous board), Frosh would be on them like flies on Frosh.
So this is the longtime Republican operative that works for Hogan on appointments ...
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriscavey
If this HPRB brouhaha had appeared in the media the year prior to Hogan's election run, wonder whether Cavey would have switched out people that were more likely to follow the lead of the state police licensing division. Obviously, it's a small proportion of voters, but I bet they're overrepresented in terms of donors to the Republican party.
Don't know what's the point. Either the Democrats will get rid of this putative oversight board or they will have effectively neutered it with help from Hogan/Cavey. Government retains its power and gives lip service to citizen oversight.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriscavey
If this HPRB brouhaha had appeared in the media the year prior to Hogan's election run, wonder whether Cavey would have switched out people that were more likely to follow the lead of the state police licensing division. Obviously, it's a small proportion of voters, but I bet they're overrepresented in terms of donors to the Republican party.
Don't know what's the point. Either the Democrats will get rid of this putative oversight board or they will have effectively neutered it with help from Hogan/Cavey. Government retains its power and gives lip service to citizen oversight.
CoolBreeze2shots
Member
- Jan 31, 2017
- 8
For those that departed early this evening, the session was reopened and the verdicts of the last two decisions were read per accorance with with Open Meetings Act. These were MSP prevail and stet docket as stated by Stevi when the room was reopened and then adjourned.
Unfortunately, for those of us following these hearings at home and having now attended one in person they're just as dysfunctional in person as they seem on the live streams. Thank you to Not_an_outlaw and Patriot Pickot for live streaming these previous hearings as they helped me prepare this evening. I strongly encourage anyone that has a planned HPRB hearing to come to at least one of these prior to your hearing (or watch the live stream start to finish - although it's even difficult to hear in the room so I'm sure the live streams were hard to hear this evening). Also, thanks to Ed for the crash course. I'll be providing more details regarding my case after it's resolved, but at this time I need to follow-up with MSP.
For those requesting close hearings or if you'd rather be called by application number rather than by name for privacy concerns, ensure you make the request of Stevi before your scheduled hearing.
Marylanders to Prevent Gun Violence were in attendance as usual, but were simply taking notes in the back rows. I would love to see Former Captain Jack McCauley / Mark Pennak in a cordial debate with MD to Prevent Gun Violence's best debators with some fact checking team. Maybe then next session we could actually fix these confusing gun laws. Maybe MD2PGV could provide data showing the number of HRBP permit holders who have gone through this process and later been convicted of a crime against anyone in the public. I can't find that data anywhere - but I would assume there is no data on this! Really wish the State Legislators, MSP, and HPRP would get behind more data driven decisions - one can dream right!
For anyone unfamiliar with the area there is limited parking on the street, but you should be able to park in a lot secured by a security officer at the gate. Simply tell them you're there at the Armory for the HPRB meeting and you'll show any ID and be able to park inside the gate. There was plenty of parking.
It was comforting to have Chairman Crowley confirm during the hearing that those with limited permits who owned a business could determine when they were and were not performing official business, this was not refuted by MSP and was said at least twice tonight. However, I'm not a lawyer and do not know if this would hold up in court while some MSP/Local Police Officer has you in their back of their car taking you to jail for their perception of you carrying outside your restrictions (and I hope to never find out the answer to this from experience).
At this time with what was said tonight, I'm not sure counsel would do you much good and in my opinion, you'd probably be better off appealing the HPRB decision to the Office of Administrative Law Judges and spend your money on a lawyer there. Or maybe even withdrawl your appeal until after the fall session. The defense attorney from OC made some amazing points tonight: extremely valid concerns, cited current law, examples of predicaments current restrictions place citizens in in which they'd find if difficult to comply with existing laws without alarming the public (e.g. disarming while carrying to transport in the trunk - this is obvioiusly concerning to someone unfamiliar with the law which I think 90% of non-handgun owners are unfamiliar with the MD handgun laws - but I would guess that the police would be called for someone in the parking lot putting a gun in their trunk). I thought he made great points and MSP still prevailed in his case. Also, if you can afford an attorney obviously this is the best way to go. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford one and in my opinion, I thought the HPRB was supposed to be more layman terms and citizens making up the board. Since the recent change, it has become very more like a courtroom. Maybe they're just getting us ready for the pain of ALJs in the coming months
Lastly, as others mentioned. Closed sessions were brought up by whomever was sitting next to Stevi. I don't know who this guys is, I'm assuming maybe f. Todd Taylor Jr. by process of elimiation, but I think he needs to retake his HPRB complicane certificate because he's not listed here (https://www.dpscs.state.md.us/agencies/hprb-compliance_certificates.shtml). Only the chairman Smalkin and Stevi are listed here and statements he made conflict with the HPRB website "Be advised that a part or all of any meeting of the Handgun Permit Review Board may be conducted in closed session pursuant to law." - https://www.dpscs.state.md.us/agencies/hprb.shtml. I don't know why he would bring this up during the hearing when it's on their website. Stevi on the otherhand does have her certificate posted to the HPRB website link above and does seem to keep the new HPRB inline in accorance with policy/law. So, speak-up Stevi!!
(This is my novice understanding of the HPRB hearing tonight and I may have some things wrong, but it's what I understand about this very confusing process. Sorry if I got anything mixed up.)
Unfortunately, for those of us following these hearings at home and having now attended one in person they're just as dysfunctional in person as they seem on the live streams. Thank you to Not_an_outlaw and Patriot Pickot for live streaming these previous hearings as they helped me prepare this evening. I strongly encourage anyone that has a planned HPRB hearing to come to at least one of these prior to your hearing (or watch the live stream start to finish - although it's even difficult to hear in the room so I'm sure the live streams were hard to hear this evening). Also, thanks to Ed for the crash course. I'll be providing more details regarding my case after it's resolved, but at this time I need to follow-up with MSP.
For those requesting close hearings or if you'd rather be called by application number rather than by name for privacy concerns, ensure you make the request of Stevi before your scheduled hearing.
Marylanders to Prevent Gun Violence were in attendance as usual, but were simply taking notes in the back rows. I would love to see Former Captain Jack McCauley / Mark Pennak in a cordial debate with MD to Prevent Gun Violence's best debators with some fact checking team. Maybe then next session we could actually fix these confusing gun laws. Maybe MD2PGV could provide data showing the number of HRBP permit holders who have gone through this process and later been convicted of a crime against anyone in the public. I can't find that data anywhere - but I would assume there is no data on this! Really wish the State Legislators, MSP, and HPRP would get behind more data driven decisions - one can dream right!
For anyone unfamiliar with the area there is limited parking on the street, but you should be able to park in a lot secured by a security officer at the gate. Simply tell them you're there at the Armory for the HPRB meeting and you'll show any ID and be able to park inside the gate. There was plenty of parking.
It was comforting to have Chairman Crowley confirm during the hearing that those with limited permits who owned a business could determine when they were and were not performing official business, this was not refuted by MSP and was said at least twice tonight. However, I'm not a lawyer and do not know if this would hold up in court while some MSP/Local Police Officer has you in their back of their car taking you to jail for their perception of you carrying outside your restrictions (and I hope to never find out the answer to this from experience).
At this time with what was said tonight, I'm not sure counsel would do you much good and in my opinion, you'd probably be better off appealing the HPRB decision to the Office of Administrative Law Judges and spend your money on a lawyer there. Or maybe even withdrawl your appeal until after the fall session. The defense attorney from OC made some amazing points tonight: extremely valid concerns, cited current law, examples of predicaments current restrictions place citizens in in which they'd find if difficult to comply with existing laws without alarming the public (e.g. disarming while carrying to transport in the trunk - this is obvioiusly concerning to someone unfamiliar with the law which I think 90% of non-handgun owners are unfamiliar with the MD handgun laws - but I would guess that the police would be called for someone in the parking lot putting a gun in their trunk). I thought he made great points and MSP still prevailed in his case. Also, if you can afford an attorney obviously this is the best way to go. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford one and in my opinion, I thought the HPRB was supposed to be more layman terms and citizens making up the board. Since the recent change, it has become very more like a courtroom. Maybe they're just getting us ready for the pain of ALJs in the coming months
Lastly, as others mentioned. Closed sessions were brought up by whomever was sitting next to Stevi. I don't know who this guys is, I'm assuming maybe f. Todd Taylor Jr. by process of elimiation, but I think he needs to retake his HPRB complicane certificate because he's not listed here (https://www.dpscs.state.md.us/agencies/hprb-compliance_certificates.shtml). Only the chairman Smalkin and Stevi are listed here and statements he made conflict with the HPRB website "Be advised that a part or all of any meeting of the Handgun Permit Review Board may be conducted in closed session pursuant to law." - https://www.dpscs.state.md.us/agencies/hprb.shtml. I don't know why he would bring this up during the hearing when it's on their website. Stevi on the otherhand does have her certificate posted to the HPRB website link above and does seem to keep the new HPRB inline in accorance with policy/law. So, speak-up Stevi!!
(This is my novice understanding of the HPRB hearing tonight and I may have some things wrong, but it's what I understand about this very confusing process. Sorry if I got anything mixed up.)
Has anyone who has lost at the ALJ appealed to the circuit courts yet? It seems to me that demorat monkey county lawyer has already made up his mind about this board and will try to throw a monkey wrench to any one who is appealing so MSP will win. Of course the judge still does not know the power of the board and the MD law since he was a fed judge. Has anyone tried to contact the person in the Hogans office and does he even know MD law about this??? or did Herr Frosh and MSP submit a list to him before hand of the people they wanted on the board???
songlaw
Active Member
Double cases per meeting
The guy sitting next to Stevi is Todd Taylor. I don’t know if this was announced, but when I asked Todd why they don’t hear more cases per meeting, he said they are doubling the number of cases, to 20 per meeting.
I figure I have about a 6 month wait, instead of about 11 months (IF the Board survives).
The guy sitting next to Stevi is Todd Taylor. I don’t know if this was announced, but when I asked Todd why they don’t hear more cases per meeting, he said they are doubling the number of cases, to 20 per meeting.
I figure I have about a 6 month wait, instead of about 11 months (IF the Board survives).
Raineman
On the 3rd box
So why not just remove restrictions if this is the position?
(Not a question to you CB2, just a general observation)
Wonder who is going to be the guinea pig for that one.
Muleskinner
Ultimate Member
A veto override has already been promised.
I don't see why all of you are surprised by the actions of this new board. Look who appointed these people....the ANTI 2A governor...Some of you still think he's on your side...LOL
Now their worried about violating the OMA? That’s rich
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Anyone know how they have been dealing with renewals of permits that are unrestricted? I'd say what makes sense but.........
TD
TD
Yeah, the big question for a lot of us. Guess I’ll find out in February. My gut tells me it’s going to be a re-restricted permit and an expensive, months-long, pointless, and ultimately unsuccessful fight to re-lift the currently lifted restrictions.
Anyone thinks they are getting unrestricted at renewal time is kidding themselves , the plot and story has been written .
What a pile of crap
TD
TD
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