Gifting to a family member out of state in NY

Threeband said:

By the way, the OP, Butcher was the 16th person to join Maryland Shooters, over twelve years ago.
He's avoided the post-whorin' ways of some others!

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swinokur said:

i believe it is more tongue-in-cheek than what you are perceiving.

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Threeband said:

There are several felonies here, federal and state. Prosecutors from multiple jurisdictions are going to fight over your coworker's bleeding carcass (metaphorically).

There was a big case a few years back where a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) in, I think Virginia was severely prosecuted just for using his law enforcement discount to buy a gun for his father. In that case, everything was done properly, with the transfer going through Federal Firearms Licencees, but because the buyer used his professional discount, it was deemed a straw purchase. His career was ruined, and I think he went to jail.

I'm sure someone here can find a reference to the case. I think the LEO's father lived in New York, too.

Anyway, I wonder if your coworker isn't one of these people who insists that we really do need tougher, common sense gun laws, because it's just too easy for people to get guns. We hear about those types all the time who are shocked when they themselves try to buy a gun.

People like that believe anyone can just buy a handgun at a gun show, or over the internet. No way.

Even if your coworker decides to deliberately break the law (because dammit, he's special), he's going to be in for a big surprise when he goes to buy that Glock here in Maryland.

He'll need a Handgun Qualification License, which costs several hundred dollars and takes several weeks. He'll need to be fingerprinted, take a training class, fill out piles of paperwork, and then wait while the Maryland State Police run extensive background checks on him. It's not unusual for these background checks to turn up long forgotten disqualifications from sealed records in other states, too.

Only after he passes the background checks (and your coworker sounds like the type who would not pass) and gets his Maryland HQL, can he go shopping for the gun here in Maryland. He'l probably be surprised by the pile of federal and state forms he'll have to fill out, and he sounds like the kind of guy who will complain self-righteously, "I just spent a month getting my HQL! Why should I have to do this a second time! I'm not a criminal!"

But he is a criminal, big time, state and federal. He's knowingly and deliberately making a straw purchase, and committing multiple serious crimes by doing so. And he still hasn't gotten the Glock!

After he breaks multiple state and federal laws by filling out the purchase forms, he's going to really be annoyed to learn that he has to go through the entire background check a second time, with a mandatory seven day waiting period. In addition to a federal, FBI-administered background check, he gets the entire Maryland State Police check repeated, the one that scrutinizes the sealed juvenile records from other states. By the way, if he thinks he can lie about that stupid fistfight in Atlantic City back in 1993, he might be surprised when they prosecute him for that one alone, even before they catch on to the straw purchase angle.

Assuming he manages to illegally acquire the Glock here in Maryland (and I'll bet he can't - I'll bet he's Prohibited), he's going to involve himself and his father in a mountain of crimes in New York.

The gun may not even enter the state of New York until all the New York permit procedures are 100% complete. New York is extremely strict about that, and they do prosecute. But your coworker is special, so the laws don't apply to him.

If that gun shows up in New York, and his father tries to register it on a New York permit, the scrutiny is going to land him in a New York jail. Then they are going to come after your coworker, and he is going to jail, too. From jail to real prison, probably federal prison.

If the father decides to not to get a New York permit for it, then he will live as a criminal for as long as he possesses that ticking time bomb. If he ever gets caught with that illegal, unregistered pistol, New York is going to prosecute him severely. The intense scrutiny will reveal the illegality of the initial straw purchase and illegal interstate transfer. Then Maryland State Police and Federal ATF are going to come after your idiot coworker.

Your coworker sounds like the kind of guy who thinks we need tougher gun laws, "because it's just too easy for people to get guns", but thinks he's special, so the law doesn't apply to him. People like that often are already Prohibited, that is, legally ineligible to own guns. Sometimes they already do own a few guns, and are surprised when they try to buy another, and the now-alerted police show up to confiscate the old guns they already have.


----edit to add:

Pinecone might be right, that it isn't a straw purchase, although that might not prevent the buyer from being initially arrested, even if he beats it in court. Seems to me that's what hung up the LEO I mentioned: his father sent him a check and wrote "For Glock" on it. But there are still numerous felonies being contemplated here. Illegal interstate transfer is a major federal felony, and there are multiple New York felonies for both father and sun. But Pinecone might be right: they might drop the straw purchase angle as part of the plea deal, even if they prosecute him for lying about that little marijuana thing back in 1997.

I stand by everything else I posted.

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swinokur said:

My point was it's not illegal to pay for a gun if the actual recipient is the one on the 4473.

Completely legit.

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swinokur said:

I have purchased two firearms for my son while standing in the FFL's shop.

completely legal as the person on the 4473 was the actual recipient. All I did was pay for it.

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