Some more NJ stats on gun permits (Retired police)

ryan_j · Aug 11, 2014

In NJ the only people who really have a right to carry are the cops and retired cops. Retired cops get a retired officer permit which they pay $50 per year. It's not just regular police, but also COs, MPs, coast guard and other LEOs, including LEOs that moved to NJ from out of state.

Last year, NJ reported $440,000 in income from the retired officer handgun permits.

So if you do the math, that works out to ~8800 retired police officer handgun permits, since the fee is annual.

So this is the other piece of the puzzle that has been missing. We now know that ~1200 civilians and 8800 retired police have carry permits. This means that ~10,000 people in NJ have carry permits, with most of them being retired police. This is out of a population of ~8 million.

The stats are from the Governor's FY15 budget statement at http://yourmoney.nj.gov

press1280 · Aug 16, 2014

It also shows that contrary to the antis' claim that hardly anyone wants a carry permit, that retired LEOs who actually CAN get a permit in NJ, will do so. 8800 is surely a good percentage of retired LEOs in NJ. You also have to take into account the retired LEO permits in NJ are a PITA to keep up, needing to re-qualify every 6 months or so.

ryan_j · Aug 16, 2014

This number is pretty much confirmed based on a conversation a friend had with NJSP.

Alea Jacta Est · Aug 16, 2014

press1280 said:
It also shows that contrary to the antis' claim that hardly anyone wants a carry permit, that retired LEOs who actually CAN get a permit in NJ, will do so. 8800 is surely a good percentage of retired LEOs in NJ. You also have to take into account the retired LEO permits in NJ are a PITA to keep up, needing to re-qualify every 6 months or so.

Retired LEOs generally enjoy pretty good awareness of the day to day public threat matrix ...

Why wouldn't they avail themselves of the benefit?

Also, they're likely to have participated first hand in the judicial process thus they just might have some folks who just plain don't like them...in a Jersey personal kind of way.

ryan_j · Aug 16, 2014

I think most retired NJ LEOs move out of state. It's cost prohibitive to retire here.

press1280 · Aug 16, 2014

Nnztg8r said:
Retired LEOs generally enjoy pretty good awareness of the day to day public threat matrix ...

Why wouldn't they avail themselves of the benefit?

Also, they're likely to have participated first hand in the judicial process thus they just might have some folks who just plain don't like them...in a Jersey personal kind of way.

There will be a few no doubt but I don't believe that most are under any specific threat from a person they put away years before.
They carry because they CAN and because like most of us know there are crazies running around who will kill to get their next fix.

press1280 · Aug 16, 2014

ryan_j said:
I think most retired NJ LEOs move out of state. It's cost prohibitive to retire here.

That too. Your guys PP taxes are HIGH. If you own a home in NJ you don't pay less than 5k/year in taxes it seems. My property taxes are 1k a year in WV

for an average home.

ryan_j · Aug 16, 2014

Up here I pay about 8k for a 4br 2700sf with 6 acres of land. But this is not typical jersey. 70% goes to the schools, and they are expensive to run. Some areas have 10k and 15k for a horror movie set easily.

El Patron Grande · Aug 16, 2014

El Patron Grande says:

That whole retired cops get to keep a concealed permit is troubling. I've never heard of a single case of a former felon coming after a retired cop. Not once. Any one know of such a case to substantiate the policy???

El Patron Grande is eagerly waiting for documented cases otherwise!

press1280 · Aug 17, 2014

El Patron Grande said:
El Patron Grande says:

That whole retired cops get to keep a concealed permit is troubling. I've never heard of a single case of a former felon coming after a retired cop. Not once. Any one know of such a case to substantiate the policy???

El Patron Grande is eagerly waiting for documented cases otherwise!

I have not. IIRC, what partially led to retired LEOs getting this exception in NJ was a retired cop killed while trying to help an couple who was confronted by a gangbanger. Of course, he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (like what could happen to anyone), and was not specifically targeted.

ryan_j · Aug 17, 2014

Personally I don't think the real reasoning to give retired cops permits has anything to do with safety. It's all lobbying by the unions. There most definitely IS a safety aspect. I'm sure there are people they arrested who would love to get revenge once they get out of jail. But other things make it seem like a post retirement perk and nothing else.

Only LEOs who retired after 10 years can get a permit, except if they retired due to disability in which case it is 4 years. So if you lock up a notorious criminal and get injured on the job and have to retire in 3 years you're on your own. No permit for you.

NJ requires that anyone operating a private security company have a private detective license. This requires 5 years LEO experience or 5 years investigative experience which can be documented. So essentially this is a job reserved for retired cops. By the way private detectives and security guards are the only ones getting carry permits.

press1280 · Aug 17, 2014

ryan_j said:
Personally I don't think the real reasoning to give retired cops permits has anything to do with safety. It's all lobbying by the unions. There most definitely IS a safety aspect. I'm sure there are people they arrested who would love to get revenge once they get out of jail. But other things make it seem like a post retirement perk and nothing else.

Only LEOs who retired after 10 years can get a permit, except if they retired due to disability in which case it is 4 years. So if you lock up a notorious criminal and get injured on the job and have to retire in 3 years you're on your own. No permit for you.

NJ requires that anyone operating a private security company have a private detective license. This requires 5 years LEO experience or 5 years investigative experience which can be documented. So essentially this is a job reserved for retired cops. By the way private detectives and security guards are the only ones getting carry permits.

There's also the "divide and conquer" aspect. If retired LEOs had to be treated like every other citizen, you can bet their unions would be singing a different tune and wouldn't be in lock step with the Democratic politicians like they are now. Shall-issue would get a huge boost in NJ with vocal police unions as a voice. Instead, silence :sad20:

ryan_j · Aug 18, 2014

press1280 said:
There's also the "divide and conquer" aspect. If retired LEOs had to be treated like every other citizen, you can bet their unions would be singing a different tune and wouldn't be in lock step with the Democratic politicians like they are now. Shall-issue would get a huge boost in NJ with vocal police unions as a voice. Instead, silence

Yep, and I suspect that the RPO permit was done precisely to get them to shut up.

Some more NJ stats on gun permits (Retired police)

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