DC locks up non-criminal for possessing empty shells

mr phil · Oct 23, 2013

It seems obvious that this man has pissed off the wrong person and someone is doing that person a favor.
My vote is for the estranged wife. Is it a coincidence that the girl friend was there when the raid happened ?
He could even be a member of a conservative group. Or hell just a Republican .

Mooseman · Oct 23, 2013

Slowhand · Oct 23, 2013

j8064 said:
What? They didn't have a dog?

If they did, Gestapo would have shot it 1st, then interrogated it.

Slowhand · Oct 23, 2013

Objee said:
She.

Can we get a Hitler mustache 'shopped on this face?

Second Amendment · Oct 23, 2013

Mooseman said:

Anticipating a "when cop threads go wild show"?

Inigoes · Oct 23, 2013

mpdc4511 said:
Also they did find a BP revolver so there is a crap ton in this case that we don't know. They could have utilized the charge temprorarly while the DV related stuff is investigated. If you have a TPO aganist you, you can not possess firearms. Now yes I understand the fact that it's "technically" not a firearm and that will obviously come to light at some point but there is way more to this then we know.

The Police confiscated an "antique", which is not considered a firearm and is legal to own in DC.

Why didn't the steak knives get confiscated also?

This is the typical BS, when a couple seperates. One SWATs, the other; and the police are happy to oblige.

"Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned!"

StantonCree · Oct 23, 2013

Inigoes said:
The Police confiscated an "antique", which is not considered a firearm and is legal to own in DC.

Why didn't the steak knives get confiscated also?

This is the typical BS, when a couple seperates. One SWATs, the other; and the police are happy to oblige.

"Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned!"

Thank you for basically repeating my statement

SS396 · Oct 23, 2013

Man, you guys are hard core. In some ways it's understandable given the current climate we live in. I only ask that you read between the lines a little with this case. I've put my two cents in a few times. Now I'm going to sit back with Mooseman and see how it plays out.

Inigoes · Oct 23, 2013

mpdc4511 said:
Thank you for basically repeating my statement

What I am saying: Antiques are not firearms.

Why the drama from the MPDC?

StantonCree · Oct 23, 2013

SS396 said:
Man, you guys are hard core. In some ways it's understandable given the current climate we live in. I only ask that you read between the lines a little with this case. I've put my two cents in a few times. Now I'm going to sit back with Mooseman and see how it plays out.

I'll join you too I'll bring the beer.....mooseman can go get us food from annies country kitchen in accident and you can bring the PJ's

Here is how this thread will end......"Well what if the police did this" and "what if they did that". "Your an idiot, they probably did this." "Nope your moms a moron, they probably did this." " I hate DUI checkpoints" "I hate police in general"

Norton with the lock

Mooseman · Oct 23, 2013

It has been forever since I have eaten at Annie's. Sounds like a good idea.

Les Gawlik · Oct 23, 2013

SS396 said:
To clarify, the judge ruled that complaint lacked "merit". And it may well have. Part of the problem here is that we're all trying to speculate on what is really going on.....therein lies the problem, and my point.

For arguments sake, lacking merit doesn't necessarily mean the alleged act didn't occur. She may not have explained her case very well and therefor couldn't obtain the order. Also, the judge is human. The lacking of merit is somewhat subjective. This is why we have several levels of review. The police, particularly in cases of domestic violence, must act quickly based on what they know at the time. Later judicial review may determine that their actions were not necessary. This is normal and very common. Again, the police are acting on what they KNOW AT THE TIME. I also think, as a former SWAT officer, that the use of the tactacal team in this case is very telling. They don't use this resource lightly I can assure you. You do not have all of the information.

I think if you take a step back for a minute, many will agree that something more is going on with this man. This, in my opinion, is not just your everyday innocent gun owner/hunter who was picked out of millions for persecution. If, on the other hand it was, then I'd be the first to speak out against it.

"Lacking merit" means "Bogus". Judges are more than happy to issues protective orders at the drop of a hat. There are women's advocacy groups available for free, and I can't believe if he's a successful investment advisor she wasn't repped twelve ways 'til Sunday.

After she lost the DV gig, she went back to the police and cajoled them to obtain a search warrant. Women who lose one DV action will often file many more, one after the other. After all, what do they have to lose? It's all free for them, and catastrophic for the guys. They only have to get lucky once, the guy has to win every time.

The cops knuckled under and go the warrant. They found nothing except for these two innocent items, three if you include the legal BP gun. This was pure harassment by the STBX, nothing more. Why would think there's something more to the guy when the whole story is laid out with stark clarity?

mr phil · Oct 23, 2013

mpdc4511 said:
I'll join you too I'll bring the beer.....mooseman can go get us food from annies country kitchen in accident and you can bring the PJ's

Here is how this thread will end......"Well what if the police did this" and "what if they did that". "Your an idiot, they probably did this." "Nope your moms a moron, they probably did this." " I hate DUI checkpoints" "I hate police in general"

Norton with the lock

You forgot the " what if he was Muslum ?

2AHokie · Oct 23, 2013

There is absolutely no reason to believe there is any more to this than we know. I know this because he would be on trial for something a lot more serious if he were such a danger. But nope, they're pressing the issue because they know they erred and it'll be harder for him to win a misconduct lawsuit if he's a convict.

It started as a disgruntled ex-wife playing anti-gun police and prosecutors in DC like a fiddle. I don't give a single f about what is common practice either. This whole "guilty until proven innocent" nonsense that crops up under the specter of "they have to do something b/c someone made an allegation of abuse" is pure, unadulterated ********. It's the exact same pure, unadulterated ******** that presents itself when we have to "ban assault weapons to save even a single life." It's indefensible.

mr phil · Oct 23, 2013

2AHokie said:
There is absolutely no reason to believe there is any more to this than we know. It's a disgruntled ex-wife playing anti-gun police and prosecutors in DC like a fiddle. I don't give a single f about what is common practice either. This whole "guilty until proven innocent" nonsense that crops up under the specter of "they have to do something b/c someone made an allegation of abuse" is pure, unadulterated ********. It's the exact same pure, unadulterated ******** that presents itself when we have to "ban assault weapons to save even a single life." It's indefensible.

SS396 · Oct 23, 2013

Les Gawlik said:
"Lacking merit" means "Bogus". Judges are more than happy to issues protective orders at the drop of a hat. There are women's advocacy groups available for free, and I can't believe if he's a successful investment advisor she wasn't repped twelve ways 'til Sunday.

After she lost the DV gig, she went back to the police and cajoled them to obtain a search warrant. Women who lose one DV action will often file many more, one after the other. After all, what do they have to lose? It's all free for them, and catastrophic for the guys. They only have to get lucky once, the guy has to win every time.

The cops knuckled under and go the warrant. They found nothing except for these two innocent items, three if you include the legal BP gun. This was pure harassment by the STBX, nothing more. Why would think there's something more to the guy when the whole story is laid out with stark clarity?

Okay, MPDC4511 hold my beer for a minute. First of all, I don't know about the whole "laid out with stark clarity" thing. Truth be told, that's the silly thing about this thread. We're commenting on something that none of us have any clue about really. It's just a newspaper article. Secondly, I'm sure because he is a successful investiment advisor this precludes him from doing anything wrong :sarcasm:

I could be way off. This could be a good man who doesn't deserve this. My past experience though tells me there's just a little more to it. There's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions here :sad20:

Inigoes · Oct 23, 2013

SS396 said:
I could be way off. This could be a good man who doesn't deserve this. My past experience though tells me there's just a little more to it. There's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions here

The issue here is one pissed off ex-wife.

It doesn't matter if the guy is as saintly like the pope. The ex is pissed! He has a new squeeze, and she is exacting her revenge.

pbharvey · Oct 23, 2013

For argument's sake, suppose the guy threatened at some point to shoot his estranged wife.
I think we can safely assume that the police did not show up as a result of the wife on the other end of a 911 call so she wasn't in immediate danger.

I don't get 30 officers storming the house, busting down a bathroom door and pulling a minor, naked out of the shower.

Where's the threat that justifies this action?

This wasn't the first time they were in his home - why the heavy handedness?

This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit” access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing to hide.

Engine4 · Oct 23, 2013

Lesson learned. Move the guns out after the man comes knocking without a warrant.

SS396 · Oct 23, 2013

pbharvey said:
For argument's sake, suppose the guy threatened at some point to shoot his estranged wife.
I think we can safely assume that the police did not show up as a result of the wife on the other end of a 911 call so she wasn't in immediate danger.

I don't get 30 officers storming the house, busting down a bathroom door and pulling a minor, naked out of the shower.

Where's the threat that justifies this action?

This wasn't the first time they were in his home - why the heavy handedness?

To some extent you're making my point for me. I can tell you with some confidence that they don't send officers 30 deep on a raid to just the average poor slob who is being victimized by his estranged wife. For goodness sake, they'd be knocking down more than 50% of the doors on your street and my street!

I agree that it wasn't the result of a 911 call. There was much more that went into this that you're not hearing. I mean, Oh my god, the media didn't get all of the information, or didn't relay the story 100% accurately? That's never happened before.

This guy has some kind of history. There may be neighbors or other family that offered information - all info that would not have been given to the papers. If the guy is a loose cannon and is armed, they're not going to risk the lives of the average patrol officer, who is a person and has a family, when they can utilize more appropriate numbers. The fact that they also went into Virginia to research his firearms also speaks volumes. Again, they don't do that for the average guy having difficulty with his bit-- of an ex-wife.

Remember you're not hearing both sides. The authorities can't publish his known mental history, or other police reports that they may have on him, and information provided by others, including family. That makes for a very lopsided news story. I've been on these raids myself, and the news NEVER gets it right. I simply think that most reasonable men will look at this and at least agree that there is much more to be learned.

Note: As I post this, an officer in Howard County was just shot. The threat is very real.

DC locks up non-criminal for possessing empty shells

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