Model 1917 - Head Space- New Barrell?

Huasopodrido · Apr 13, 2020

I have this rifle, A gift many years ago. I have shot it many times over these years. This rifle now being over 100 years old, my question is head spacing. IT does shoot well, never a hang up or misfire. But, safety first! Should I have a concern?

Thanks
Jose

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Apr 13, 2020

Probably not an issue but get it headspaced if you feel it will make you feel secure. You can also order a go-no go gauge from Brownells and do it yourself.

Huasopodrido · Apr 13, 2020

Many Thanks!

Red1917 · Apr 13, 2020

I went down this road with my 1917 a while back, these do not headspace like normal rifles, you have to be careful if you do get a gauge, the action is designed to provide a very significant forward camming force that isn't typical on 1903s or other designs, and should be checked with light fiinger pressure only when closing the action on a gauge. Using too much force can damage the gauge or rifle. I'll see if I can find the link to it but there was an article in the 1930s or 40s about headspacing these rifles when they were sold onto the civilian market that excessive headspaces were reported but when gauged by the factory everything was normal.

Long story short if you're not having problems its probably not an issue. If you do get a gauge be careful with it. I went with a field gauge personally.

Art3 · Apr 13, 2020

Red1917 covered it. I remember shopping for mine, and agonizing over headspacing. I took a chance, and got lucky. There is a lot of internet "evidence" suggesting that just because it gauges to have excessive headspace, it isn't necessarily dangerous to shoot. If you reload, you just neck size the brass and only shoot it out of that rifle. I'd still be a little nervous though. The action is very strong (you'll see a lot of these have been sporterized into big game calibers because of that). If you do invest in a set of gauges (which, if you are going to collect milsurps, you might as well do), use a very light touch, as Red suggested, so you don't damage anything. Remember that it cocks on closing, so either dissassemble the bolt or hold the trigger while closing it so you are not fighting the spring when feeling for the gauge.

Does the fired brass look weird coming out of it...like stretch marks or flattened or pushed out primers? Does the bolt match?

If you are really worried, find a gunsmith experienced with old rifles and they could probably check the headspace for you for less than the cost of a set of gauges.

Also, if you put your serial number in here, it looks like her birthday is this month: https://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php?file=us_m1917wra.dat

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Apr 13, 2020

The Remington Model 30 is a factory sporterized 1917 and a beautiful rifle on its own. Would that have the same procedure for head spacing? If so, a Remington manual would be of help...I believe old manuals are obtainable from Remington's website.

Park ranger · Apr 13, 2020

You might be able to order a rcbs precision mic and measure the fired case. It it comes out too big then it has bad headspace, maybe, probably.

John from MD · Apr 13, 2020

Post a picture of a fired case and it will give us an idea if you have a problem or not.

303_enfield · Apr 13, 2020

It's very unsafe. Save yourself an send it to me.

Red1917 · Apr 14, 2020

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
The Remington Model 30 is a factory sporterized 1917 and a beautiful rifle on its own. Would that have the same procedure for head spacing? If so, a Remington manual would be of help...I believe old manuals are obtainable from Remington's website.

Good call, I found this thread that talks about 1917/model 30 headspace in the second post that claims to reference an American rifleman article from 1934:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=34474

I can’t find the original article so take it for what it’s worth

Red1917 · Apr 14, 2020

303_enfield said:
It's very unsafe. Save yourself an send it to me.

Lol good idea, nice looking rifle

Doco Overboard · Apr 14, 2020

Make sure you strip the bolt completely less extractor collar and use a Clymer field gauge. You will feel the extraction cams work just a few degrees before the bolt is completely in battery so you don't want to "crush" or swage the chamber. Soon as you feel resistance stop and use a very light touch.

PowPow · Apr 14, 2020

Red1917 said:
Lol good idea, nice looking rifle

I knew you would reply to this one. :lol:

GunBum · Apr 14, 2020

I have a set of .30-06 headspace gauges. Once this quarantine nonsense is over, you are welcome to come over and use them to check the rifle.

Red1917 · Apr 14, 2020

PowPow said:
I knew you would reply to this one.

Haha you know me too well

Huasopodrido · Apr 14, 2020

Thanks much to all for the great advice and input! I dont have any of the spent brass from this rifle as I give all my brass to shooters that reload. Never heard anything back with issues, so I guess it's good to go.

Allen65 · Apr 14, 2020

Huasopodrido said:
Thanks much to all for the great advice and input! I dont have any of the spent brass from this rifle as I give all my brass to shooters that reload. Never heard anything back with issues, so I guess it's good to go.

I wouldn't expect to hear back from them, even if there were problems, unless you knew them really well. When I get others' range castoffs, it all goes into a large container until I'm ready to process a batch. I inspect and gage each case individually, but have no way to know who gave me a particular case unless they are known for having some really off-brand headstamped stuff.

Doco's advice is perfect; use a field gage rather than no-go, and strip the bolt first.

I have two 1917s, one Winchester, one Eddystone. Both pass field gaging. But 1917s are known for having somewhat loose chambers. Remember, these were combat weapons intended for use in muddy, sandy trenches, not target rifles. In that environment, looseness=reliability. Life of brass for reloading was definitely not a concern.

Also, if you don't have one in your spares box, get yourself an ejector when you see one for sale. It's the weakest part of these rifles. That's not a safety issue, but having to pull out hot brass by hand during a match, because the ejector's spring portion snapped off, isn't fun.

Doco Overboard · Apr 14, 2020

Huasopodrido said:
Thanks much to all for the great advice and input! I dont have any of the spent brass from this rifle as I give all my brass to shooters that reload. Never heard anything back with issues, so I guess it's good to go.

Sounds like you are indeed gtg and wouldny worry about it unless you have detected a brass anomaly. Brass that comes from your rifle you may have noticed primers partially above the head of the case which you would have seen right away if chamber pressure wasn't extremely high such as a modest factory or hand-loaded cartridge or primer hits that were way off center from where the case was laying at the bottom of the chamber.

Pinecone · Apr 14, 2020

If yo have fired it, get this - https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/

Measure unfired and fired cases and see the difference. If fired are much longer, you have an issue.

Furious George · Apr 14, 2020

You are not experiencing any problems so there is something to be said for don't fix what isn't broken. Especially if you only use new cases once.

The rifle looks like a Winchester in the original finish.

If it has the original barrel you'd be foolish to muck with it even if the headspace were to measure a tad long on a modern commercial gauge.

If you installed a new Criterion barrel with minimum headspace you would actually devalue the rifle. That's not even counting the cost of the new barrel and the expense of installing it.

Get a copy of "Hatcher's Notebook" and read about some headspace experiments done in the 1920's with M1917 Enfields. He described fretting about it as measuring cord-wood with a micrometer.

Model 1917 - Head Space- New Barrell?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Member

Attachments

Ultimate Member

Member

Active Member

Eqinsu Ocha

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

American Patriot

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Where's the beef?

Active Member

Active Member

Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics