Wear and Carry Application Number as of July 14

Personally, I'm just happy that the LD was able to provide dblas with numbers. That is an improvement, IMO. I just wish they would post running totals on their web site instead of getting them pulled as a result of a citizen request. Where I came from, metrics RULED over everything else. If you couldn't prove you were working hard, you found yourself not working one day...

Blacksmith101 said:

Yeah, and who is gonna pay for that? I chip in what I can when I can to various 2nd Amendment causes but there are more causes than funds.

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Amen!

I'm in the same boat, on a fixed income, no palpable need, and not applying because my Utah nonresident license carries the day in America. I've narrowed my giving down to two 2A organizations, period.

dblas said:

As of July 14, 2016, there have been 2,033 new handgun permit applications, averaging 73 /week, which is a 38% increase from 2015.

As of July 14, 2016, there have been 2,250 handgun permit renewal apps, averaging 80/week, which is the same compared to 2015.

As of July 14, 2016, there have been 96 handgun permit denials (includes new/renewal), averaging 3/week, which is -25% compared to 2015.

The above numbers come directly from Captain Stachurski at LD.

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This doesn't say anything, just that they have received 2,033 new permit apps and 2,250 renewals it doesn't say that any of them were actually approved or re issued

lonzo said:

Might want to ask what does their backlog looks like and are the numbers from the general public or are some of the numbers include LEOs.

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This has nothing to do with approvals, just applications received, and that is for all permits.

lonzo said:

So out of 2033 new apps, less than 96 were denied(since there is both new and renewals with no real numbers from each)? is this from MSP and the board or just MSP cause I don't believe the numbers..I call BS but no way of knowing for sure...

...Mine took 6 months "investigate" ask for more information...

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Just from MSP, and again, it is applications submitted. Waiting on approvals.

montoya32 said:

And we need to get rid of the BS requirement to complete training before applying. Apply, get approved, then get 90 days to train in order to be issued the permit. Just like DC. Blowing $400 for a class plus ammo is wrong.

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On this I wholeheartedly agree, so how many people will show up in Annapolis and support this bill this coming session? Last session it was less than 50.

Blacksmith101 said:

The missing number in the above is just how many of the 4,283 new and renewal applications have completed the approval process? Is that 96 denials and 4,197 approvals or is it 96 denials 100 approved and 4,097 applications pending? Certainly some of the 2,033 new applications this year have yet to be either approved or denied based on what members report on how long the process takes. Also some people have reported applications being returned with no action taken.

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I have yet to hear of that lately, MSP has been sending shortage letters asking for missing information before they start the process. If you have heard this recently (Last 6 months) please provide me with contact info.

44 Bulldog said:

This doesn't say anything, just that they have received 2,033 new permit apps and 2,250 renewals it doesn't say that any of them were actually approved or re issued

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It speaks to a trend regarding demand. No demand no action. What are you prepared to do? Sit on the sideline or insist on your right?

MSP has lied about thier numbers before having returned applications without being processed. I should know, I was one of them. I don't have G&S and don't need to spend $500+ to prove it. Has anyone here ever had a permit granted based on self defense? I think I would have heard about it by now.

INMY01TA said:

MSP has lied about thier numbers before having returned applications without being processed. I should know, I was one of them. I don't have G&S and don't need to spend $500+ to prove it. Has anyone here ever had a permit granted based on self defense? I think I would have heard about it by now.

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It's called "personal protection" on the application and it is what I applied under.

INMY01TA said:

Has anyone here ever had a permit granted based on self defense? I think I would have heard about it by now.

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Yes. The post author just above yours (#27).

INMY01TA said:

MSP has lied about thier numbers before having returned applications without being processed. I should know, I was one of them. I don't have G&S and don't need to spend $500+ to prove it. Has anyone here ever had a permit granted based on self defense? I think I would have heard about it by now.

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Yes, it's in my wallet!

Your results are not typical, I've tried and it was a waste of time and money. I've still read nothing to make me try again. People have tried using the OPM breach (which I don't even fall under) recently and failed so why bother?

Some questions for those who have successfully received permits. Or those who were ultimately denied.

1. How much money did it cost you? Particularly the variable costs like training, documents you needed to get, copying costs for duplicates like for board members, binders, legal fees, etc.

2. How much time did you personally spend? Doing research, filling out applications, getting trained, answering questions, at hearings, etc. including travel time.

3. How long did the process take? From the time you decided you needed one to when you had it in hand.

Blacksmith101 said:

Some questions for those who have successfully received permits. Or those who were ultimately denied.

1. How much money did it cost you? Particularly the variable costs like training, documents you needed to get, copying costs for duplicates like for board members, binders, legal fees, etc.


2. How much time did you personally spend? Doing research, filling out applications, getting trained, answering questions, at hearings, etc. including travel time.


3. How long did the process take? From the time you decided you needed one to when you had it in hand.

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1. About $500 all in. I did not hire an attorney though.
2. Probably 60 to 80 hours. Lots of writing.
3. About 14 months from start to finish.

Blacksmith101 said:

Some questions for those who have successfully received permits. Or those who were ultimately denied. 1. How much money did it cost you? Particularly the variable costs like training, documents you needed to get, copying costs for duplicates like for board members, binders, legal fees, etc. 2. How much time did you personally spend? Doing research, filling out applications, getting trained, answering questions, at hearings, etc. including travel time. 3. How long did the process take? From the time you decided you needed one to when you had it in hand.

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About $400- I did a lot of research over a couple of months, spent several hours writing and editing my G&S statement- actual application is straightforward. Permit received day 88 in mail, but from the time I decided "hey I'm going to seriously try to get a MD permit," about 5 months. No lawyer used.

For what it's worth, my father (who lives in shall-issue North Carolina) and I had the idea to go about getting our respective permits around the same time, about new years. I submitted for UT in the meantime so that I could carry in NC, which I received in about a month. My father's North Carolina permit took the full 90 days from the time he got around to submitting it, and he didn't have it in-hand until mid-April, just a month shy of when I received my Maryland, so... even though I say "five months," I wouldn't consider the application process or waiting time any more of a hardship than any state that has a 90-day approval process.

doublins said:

In this state- any movement in the right direction is a cause for celebration.

That said- this puts the approval rating for applications at 97.75%, beyond corroborating what Gov. Hogan said.

Which means, the only way to FIX the problem for the average citizen, is for MORE PEOPLE TO APPLY. Nobody will believe that anything needs to be changed if there is a 98% approval rate.

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There is nothing saying how many of the applications were approved. If this is how the governor came up with the 90+% approval rating it's pure BS.

I would like to see how many of the 73 per week have been approved 6 months later.
How many of the applications from January 2016 (say 300) have been approved?

Also how many of the initial applications are for armor truck and security guards which unless you're a prohibited person are more likely to get approved?

hitwtom said:

There is nothing saying how many of the applications were approved. If this is how the governor came up with the 90+% approval rating it's pure BS.

I would like to see how many of the 73 per week have been approved 6 months later.
How many of the applications from January 2016 (say 300) have been approved?

Also how many of the initial applications are for armor truck and security guards which unless you're a prohibited person are more likely to get approved?

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Approval numbers haven't been supplied yet, and the breakout is the next ask from the MAFFS database.

BTW, anyone that has commented in this thread, or read it, can ask for the numbers and get them.

hitwtom said:

There is nothing saying how many of the applications were approved. If this is how the governor came up with the 90+% approval rating it's pure BS.

I would like to see how many of the 73 per week have been approved 6 months later.
How many of the applications from January 2016 (say 300) have been approved?

Also how many of the initial applications are for armor truck and security guards which unless you're a prohibited person are more likely to get approved?

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This is exactly my point. Ordinary people (regular person, non-business owner, non-security, etc.) aren't applying under personal protection because they're 'convinced' they won't get a permit. My point is that because of this, it means that only 2.25% of permit applications this year have been denied, which certainly would not be indicative of a problem to the average marylander layperson, and your complaints that it's 'impossible to get a permit' would fall on deaf ears. In order to get any traction with respect to the argument that the "MSP's may issue SOP is denying citizens the right to carry," you will need data to back up your claim. Without people applying and getting denied to get an accurate figure, then the data only helps to reinforce MSP's SOP.

I personally love the idea that we could get the training waived to post-approval, pre-issue, so that folks wouldn't have to pony up that additional $300 upfront in order to submit their application. I bet many more folks would be willing to roll the dice for $100, if the issue of an otherwise approved permit was then contingent on receipt of completed training and a passing qualification score.

highli99 said:

1. About $500 all in. I did not hire an attorney though.
2. Probably 60 to 80 hours. Lots of writing.
3. About 14 months from start to finish.

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doublins said:

About $400- I did a lot of research over a couple of months, spent several hours writing and editing my G&S statement- actual application is straightforward. Permit received day 88 in mail, but from the time I decided "hey I'm going to seriously try to get a MD permit," about 5 months. No lawyer used.

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Perfect example above of the ******** that no one should have to go through to get a carry permit.
No earthly reason that a person should have to devote so much time and money to exercise a right.
I'm training exempt and as I stated before I wont give the bloodsuckers any more of my money until G&S is removed because from what I'm reading I'm no where near any reason that the state sees fit for issuing permits.

doublins said:

I personally love the idea that we could get the training waived to post-approval, pre-issue, so that folks wouldn't have to pony up that additional $300 upfront in order to submit their application. I bet many more folks would be willing to roll the dice for $100, if the issue of an otherwise approved permit was then contingent on receipt of completed training and a passing qualification score.

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we either need training waved, or we need to have organizations and businesses fundraise/provide charitable gifts to more individuals to force the issue.

spending 500 bucks on something that isn't likely to happen, plus the many hours of time (both working on the application, training, and interviews, HPRB etc.) is seemingly a fools errand.


so mathematically speaking, if we want to "Force the issue" what is the number of application denials that we are targeting? OR, which I think is more important, are we trying to get a large enough portion of people applying with essentially the same G&S and forcing the MSP to approve or not approve the whole lot, or, expose inconsistencies in the approval rate and process?

now the denials statistic is interesting, mostly because we don't know if its an MSP denial, before HPRB, after HPRB etc... if it is after HPRB sides with the MSP deny, then the numbers are significantly delayed and won't show up in data provided. This leads me to believe the rate of applications is greater than the rate of application processing. THAT is the one piece of data we need to figure out how to properly force the issue. how many applications are PROCESSED, and what they are definining as permit denied. this speaks nothing to restrictions.

so 80 renewals a week is consistant with the norm, and I'd assume that the denials are rare/nonexistent in this group.

back to focus. in reality, we would need to increase the number of applicants by at least 25% in order to "force the issue". 73/week = roughly 3800 total for a year. so we would need a minimum of 1000 people to apply with personal protection and self defense as a G&S. something closer to 2000 would give us better results. an additional 1000 applications, if all denied, would (well the numbers are odd so it might take them 3 years to properly deny them all) increase the total number of applications to 4800, and the total number of denials from 156 (3/week) to 1156. that goes from 4.1% denial rate to a 24% denial rate. is 3/4 permits being approved (by the politician logic) enough to force the issue? if 2000 apply with personal protection as a G&S (again assuming they deny them all) that would change the numbers to a 37% denial rate. so that's $500K to $1M in costs to achieve that. is a 2/3 approval rate enough to force the issue? another 1000 gets us to 46% denial rate. another thousand gets us a 53% denial rate. another thousand (5000) gets us a 59% denial rate.

now, its nieve for me to assume they would deny everyone. if we got another 5000 people to apply with personal protection as a G&S, I would bet my house they would not blanked deny them all. I would also bet my house that it would cause panic and discord that we double their workload. now if they deny some, and approve others, then we finally have a legitimate (undeniable by the gun grabers) 14th amendment violation. especially if a good chunk of the applicants are something other than white males. ideally we would have the numbers that are about 50/50 male female with about 40% not white.

or if we flood them with applications they do blanked disapprove them, and it takes 5 years to run them all through the HPRB.

again.... this costs a lot of money to accomplish this, and to those who go through the process, it is a lot of work.

so realistically we would need 1 million bucks and 2000 people to volunteer to go through the process. to force the issue.