How CZ Lost My Respect

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  • BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I'm wondering if CZ USA got scammed and CZ UB didn't have anything to do with it. In any event, it seems to me that their supply chain was broken into somewhere along the line. I just can't see a firm like CZ p1ssing away their brand to defend what looks like a Khyber Pass knockoff.
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Let’s not speak of enameled finishes on any gun...



    If it wasn’t for that, my 83 might be my favorite handgun I own.
    One of the reasons that I sold an otherwise lightly used CZ 82 - just couldn't get over the ugly finish. Even worn Makarovs look better.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,522
    Further research has yielded the following:

    The 150-200 P-01's that were hard chromed, polished, roll-marked with an auto-pencil and sold as 'stainless steel' were done by a distributor called, (Bill) Hicks, Inc. (800-633-5634, info@hicks.com) and if I had one that the finish was peeling-off of, I'd contact them directly about it since CZ-USA refuses to even acknowledge these pistols or their complicity in the fraud.

    https://www.hicksinc.com/

    Truly pathetic, considering they put them in factory-produced CZ plastic cases and issued a non-catalogued SKU # for them.

    :sad20:
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    Since I refuse to submit to Marylandistan's HQL requirement, I am limited to what is available that qualifies as C&R. The finish is why I haven't pulled the trigger on a CZ-82. Too many that I have seen look like crap. If I ever get one, it would have to get a more durable finish which I am not excited about doing.

    I prefer to keep my milsurps unmodified if at all possible. It would be nice to have something for the 9x18mm Makarov with a 12 round capacity, but the CZ-82 is overpriced IMO because of the terrible finishes. My solution,... carry two beautiful P-64s!

    :gun3:
     

    Racer Doug14

    Thread killer
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Feb 22, 2013
    8,003
    Millers Maryland
    I'm not a fan of polished stainless. Too pimpy, IMO. I've never been a fan of CZ finish on their pistols, looks like a paint job. But, the pistol is solid. I see my adding one at some point. This is a suck situation for those that bought these pistols.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,522
    I'm not a fan of polished stainless. Too pimpy, IMO. I've never been a fan of CZ finish on their pistols, looks like a paint job. But, the pistol is solid. I see my adding one at some point. This is a suck situation for those that bought these pistols.

    I've been a CZ fan for a long time but, any future business I'd do with CZ-USA would probably leave a bad taste like, (I imagine) a cross between ass and cat food? No thanks!
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    The HQL was designed to serve as a deterrent to handgun ownership in MD. Seems that it's still working as designed. :rolleyes:

    Hasn't stopped me from building some modern handguns or buying some nice C&R pistols. I have what I need, just not all I would like. The HQL requirement is ineffective for those of us with a little motivation and a few basic skills.

    :innocent0
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    I'm not a fan of polished stainless. Too pimpy, IMO. I've never been a fan of CZ finish on their pistols, looks like a paint job. But, the pistol is solid. I see my adding one at some point. This is a suck situation for those that bought these pistols.

    CZ has and still does blue guns. It's a very attractive bluing too. I have a couple, but it's not one of the more common CZ finishes. It's unfortunately somewhat fragile.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,522
    Hasn't stopped me from building some modern handguns or buying some nice C&R pistols. I have what I need, just not all I would like. The HQL requirement is ineffective for those of us with a little motivation and a few basic skills.

    :innocent0

    Somewhat off-topic to the thread but I understand and respect your decision. I just think that by doing that, you're doing exactly what Marylandistan wants. Why deny yourself something you obviously enjoy?
     

    Racer Doug14

    Thread killer
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Feb 22, 2013
    8,003
    Millers Maryland
    I've been a CZ fan for a long time but, any future business I'd do with CZ-USA would probably leave a bad taste like, (I imagine) a cross between ass and cat food? No thanks!

    The "Guy's weekend " I went to last week, one of the fella's has a Shadow2. I really wanted to try it. Unfortunately I was running a pistol station. It was black over FDE.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,522
    The "Guy's weekend " I went to last week, one of the fella's has a Shadow2. I really wanted to try it. Unfortunately I was running a pistol station. It was black over FDE.

    Unless he got his frame cerakoted, that may have been a CZ Custom job? They did a run of FDE/Black Shadow 2's last year that they tuned and tweaked. I'll bet it was a nice shooter.
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Further research has yielded the following:

    The 150-200 P-01's that were hard chromed, polished, roll-marked with an auto-pencil and sold as 'stainless steel' were done by a distributor called, (Bill) Hicks, Inc. (800-633-5634, info@hicks.com) and if I had one that the finish was peeling-off of, I'd contact them directly about it since CZ-USA refuses to even acknowledge these pistols or their complicity in the fraud.

    https://www.hicksinc.com/

    Truly pathetic, considering they put them in factory-produced CZ plastic cases and issued a non-catalogued SKU # for them.

    :sad20:
    This distributor is one of the main ones for CZ-USA. If one orders a CZ firearm from an internet retailer, after the order goes through, very often it would be shipped directly from Bill Hicks in Minnesota. Discovered them when CZ re-released the CZ 452 American rifles briefly last year and was calling places asking them to find me one with a walnut stock with nice figure, and many places said they don't actually have them in inventory to check and used this distributor. Buds was an exception (maybe because they're so large, that CZ-USA works directly with them).

    Given the numbers that Bill Hicks distributed, they had to come like this from CZ USA - and they could be actively involved in a cover up. People should be contacting corporate in the Czech Republic asking what the deal is.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,691
    One of the reasons that I sold an otherwise lightly used CZ 82 - just couldn't get over the ugly finish. Even worn Makarovs look better.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

    Without comment:
     

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    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    Given the numbers that Bill Hicks distributed, they had to come like this from CZ USA

    Let's just say, generously, that these cost (the distributor) $500 a piece. 200 of them would mean coming up with $100,000 to job them out to some shop someplace. There are all sorts of mom-and-pop middle-man retail/distribution operations that could float that in any given month if they knew they'd be getting in a product they could turn right around at a decent markup.

    I've worked with a lot of retailers, distributors, and manufacturers - including many that are known for short runs of non-standard or scarce versions of some product (could be guitars, kitchen knives, car parts, or clothing, whatever). Distribution-layer knock-off shenanigans by regional importers or distributor are amazingly common. The manufacturer rarely has anything to do with it, though they certainly end up feeling the pain.

    It's not unusual for a distributor or even a very large retailer to make a request to a manufacturer (or their domestic front end, if they're overseas) for a custom SKU because they're going to re-package something. Say, with an extra couple of mags, an optic, a special grip ... whatever. The sales operation's clerical types - low level employees clacking on a keyboard all day - can spit out a SKU per just one distribution channel's request - before a product even exists, or (if it does exist, as bundled up or otherwise customized by the distributor) without that higher stop on the supply chain ever even seeing that particular presentation/packaging/bundle what have you.

    Doesn't mean the distributor is free from contractual obligations to not screw up and not make the manufacturer look bad. Distributors and retailers who get too sly or creative often end up with their dealer/distrib contract non-renewed, or yanked on no notice for cause. Laying this at the feet of CZ itself is not necessarily the right reaction. And they may have a bunch of lawyers telling them to clam up while they try to straighten out or end the relationship with ne'er-do-well distributor. A PR mess for sure, but unless you've been in the middle of that maker-distributor-retailer food chain, you don't realize how often the players in the middle or well down stream can REALLY hose things up. This smells like just such an example.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,522
    Let's just say, generously, that these cost (the distributor) $500 a piece. 200 of them would mean coming up with $100,000 to job them out to some shop someplace. There are all sorts of mom-and-pop middle-man retail/distribution operations that could float that in any given month if they knew they'd be getting in a product they could turn right around at a decent markup.

    I've worked with a lot of retailers, distributors, and manufacturers - including many that are known for short runs of non-standard or scarce versions of some product (could be guitars, kitchen knives, car parts, or clothing, whatever). Distribution-layer knock-off shenanigans by regional importers or distributor are amazingly common. The manufacturer rarely has anything to do with it, though they certainly end up feeling the pain.

    It's not unusual for a distributor or even a very large retailer to make a request to a manufacturer (or their domestic front end, if they're overseas) for a custom SKU because they're going to re-package something. Say, with an extra couple of mags, an optic, a special grip ... whatever. The sales operation's clerical types - low level employees clacking on a keyboard all day - can spit out a SKU per just one distribution channel's request - before a product even exists, or (if it does exist, as bundled up or otherwise customized by the distributor) without that higher stop on the supply chain ever even seeing that particular presentation/packaging/bundle what have you.

    Doesn't mean the distributor is free from contractual obligations to not screw up and not make the manufacturer look bad. Distributors and retailers who get too sly or creative often end up with their dealer/distrib contract non-renewed, or yanked on no notice for cause. Laying this at the feet of CZ itself is not necessarily the right reaction. And they may have a bunch of lawyers telling them to clam up while they try to straighten out or end the relationship with ne'er-do-well distributor. A PR mess for sure, but unless you've been in the middle of that maker-distributor-retailer food chain, you don't realize how often the players in the middle or well down stream can REALLY hose things up. This smells like just such an example.

    Sounds exactly like what's going on in the background, yet, CZ-USA should ultimately be held accountable to the 200 or so schmucks who bought that P-01 thinking it was a stainless steel pistol.

    If they want to do the right thing, they should offer full refunds to any owner who desires it and if they don't, if they try to spin it as something not their fault, I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass in a class action lawsuit that features the word 'fraud' prominently. :mad54:
     

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