FTF sales thru MSP - When to exchange $$?

HandsomeBonobo · Sep 14, 2016

When transferring a regulated firearm through MSP, when should the buyer (who is not familiar with the seller) pay?

1. When the initial paperwork is filled out? Assuming everything goes smoothly, the buyer will be the legal owner of the firearm in 7 days' time - even if they don't want to pay at the end of the waiting period.

or

2. When the actual firearm is transferred? A buyer not familiar with the seller would be understandably wary of giving the seller the money at the initial paperwork filing, since the seller could take off with both the firearm and the cash.

Others on this board have mentioned that using an FFL may not prevent these issues, since an FFL won't take possession of the firearm for secondary sales.

Assume that using an FFL isn't an option. When would you expect money to change hands when dealing with strangers through MSP?

gungate · Sep 14, 2016

If I was the seller, I would want the money right now before any paperwork was filled out. If the buyer didn't trust me, he is welcome to go find someone he trusts.

Name Taken · Sep 14, 2016

Do what your comfortable with and make sure the buyer knows before you meet what the plan is.

I've paid in full, paid half at transfer half at pick up, didn't pay anything till final transfer, and anything in between that I missed.

As long as you are clear up front let the buyer decide if they are comfortable with your terms. If they aren't relist the item.

Biggfoot44 · Sep 14, 2016

Whatever buyer and seller mutually agree upon.

Unless the value of the pistol is either very high or very low, a starting point of discussion can be half down, half final delivery.

There is too such a thing as seller dropping off at FFL. It's not free. +/-$50 extra. If there are also schedule or travel issues involved, it is sometimes a prefered method. And once again subject to negeoation which party pays how much of transfer fees.

Streetgang · Sep 14, 2016

I'd say money changes hands when the gun changes hands. The paperwork is financially on the buyer for a measly $10. With that, the buyer would have the seller's contact info and it would be pretty easy to bring MSP to bear on a seller who took the money and ran.
IMHO, in the end, money and gun get exchanged at the same time.

drking2 · Sep 14, 2016

I usually get the money when paperwork done. Have has 2 occasions when paperwork came back and buyer didn't have money...

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HandsomeBonobo · Sep 14, 2016

Thanks for all your replies.

drking2 said:
I usually get the money when paperwork done. Have has 2 occasions when paperwork came back and buyer didn't have money...

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What did you do in those situations? Is the MSP able to nullify a transfer?

drking2 · Sep 14, 2016

Yes you send the paperwork back with a note it was cancelled

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RoadDawg · Sep 17, 2016

Streetgang said:
I'd say money changes hands when the gun changes hands. The paperwork is financially on the buyer for a measly $10. With that, the buyer would have the seller's contact info and it would be pretty easy to bring MSP to bear on a seller who took the money and ran.
IMHO, in the end, money and gun get exchanged at the same time.

This is how I've done it as well. $ is handed over at time of actual transfer. The buyer pays the $10.00 at the time of application to MDSP.

MEGARMS · Sep 17, 2016

I never pay or accept payment until the firearm is physically transferred and section 6 of the 77r is signed by both of us. If you can't trust me to come up with the money when you give me the gun, then I don't trust you with my money AND the gun. What's more, what happens if you pay the seller and he drives out of the parking lot and gets killed in a car accident? Is the family bound to give you the firearm in 7 days? What if the gun and money are destroyed in the fire caused by the car accident? It is all upside for the seller and none for the buyer.

I have lost the opportunity to purchase one gun because I would not agree to pay in advance. The seller believed that if I backed out of the sale that his gun would be in my name. Not sure exactly sure where he came up with this idea, but he was wrong and he lost a sale because of it. It is a good thing for me because looking back on it, I did not want that gun anyway.

good guy 176 · Sep 17, 2016

drking2 said:
I usually get the money when paperwork done. Have has 2 occasions when paperwork came back and buyer didn't have money...

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I prefer to take a healthy, nonrefundable deposit up front to discourage a buyer getting buyer's remorse. If my buyer came up with a true emergency and could not complete the deal, I'd return his money in full with no penalty. I want to be civil.

Two years ago a buyer from Ohio asked me to do an installment sale. He'd seen my M1 Garand on GunBroker but he said it'd take up to 75 days before he could muster the funds, so I took a $300 nonrefundable deposit and we settled later. Then, I sold him three more Garands in a 6 month span...four Garand sales worth $4,600 in 7 months to one fine Jerry E.

Overheard a local FFL tell a customer this week that he had $5,000 in fall through sales recently and that he was no longer doing any installment sales.

If you do an installment sale, record the transaction in writing and get both signatures on paper. May not prevent a fall through, but the written word will be better protection for you, and it will eliminate misunderstandings.

I've sold mucho times and have never had a buyer renege on me. It takes a motivated seller and buyer to get er done.

I am not a lawyer and I do not hold a FFL.

Lew--Ranger63

71Chevelle427 · Sep 17, 2016

I am as fair as I can be, so i do whatever is mutually comfortable for both of us....whether i am the Buyer or seller. I've sold all but one firearm to MDS members, and have had people pay me in full, ask how much I wanted as a deposit, and even one who wanted a gun but had just bought a rifle, so I took a small deposit, and waited 2 weeks or so for the rest, as a courtesy. We then did the paperwork. Buyer appreciated it, I helped a guy out who wanted something I had, and all parties were happy. Have never sold a regulated firearm anywhere but this site.

To the OP, the "buyer" doesn't "legally" own the gun until you've both signed the 77R when transfer is complete and mailed it in...Obviously after full payment. Until then, as said, you can simply VOID paperwork and mail it in....He/she doesn't own anything just because the 77R application was filled out and faxed in on Day 1.

My biggest gripe is A holes offering and/or advertising firearms, then jerking me around and not following through. Have had that happen on here three times....twice by the same guy... :tdown:

Chris · Sep 18, 2016

Over the years I have had sellers ask for half money in front, all the money in front or waited till exchange. Most who want all the money in front are selling to make rent, car payment or repair bill. The others are just cleaning out firearms they don't want or need. As long as I'm happy with the deal I don't care. Chris

Cochise · Sep 18, 2016

I have always done 1/2 @ paperwork rest at physical transfer (both as a buyer and a seller)

Huckleberry · Sep 18, 2016

When the firearm changes hands, so does the money.

FTF w/ MSP or transfer through a dealer. If the firearm goes on the dealer's book then PIF. Any problems are between the dealer and buyer once I release control of the weapon.

I'm willing to pay a 10% NR Deposit for Good Faith and Time Spent if I'm buying so I expect the same when I'm selling.

If the buyer is known by me or referred then I will be glad to meet the buyer at a local range for an inspection and test fire before any PW is completed. I'll cover the ammo and you pay for the range.

PowPow · Sep 18, 2016

Huckleberry said:
When the firearm changes hands, so does the money.

FTF w/ MSP or transfer through a dealer. If the firearm goes on the dealer's book then PIF. Any problems are between the dealer and buyer once I release control of the weapon.

I'm willing to pay a 10% NR Deposit for Good Faith and Time Spent if I'm buying so I expect the same when I'm selling.

If the buyer is known by me or referred then I will be glad to meet the buyer at a local range for an inspection and test fire before any PW is completed. I'll cover the ammo and you pay for the range.

^

Squaregrouper · Sep 18, 2016

Cochise said:
I have always done 1/2 @ paperwork rest at physical transfer (both as a buyer and a seller)

This is how I do it- if they're a stranger.
People I know pay when we sign the "not disapproved" 77r.

gungate · Sep 19, 2016

I think logically, not paying in advance doesn't make sense. When you buy something from Amazon, do you pay when you get it? This is like any other sale. You buy something, you pay for it. If it was something shipped to you, you'd be waiting a week or so for shipping. Why would you trust someone selling a firearm less than someone selling a table saw?

MEGARMS · Sep 19, 2016

gungate said:
I think logically, not paying in advance doesn't make sense. When you buy something from Amazon, do you pay when you get it? This is like any other sale. You buy something, you pay for it. If it was something shipped to you, you'd be waiting a week or so for shipping. Why would you trust someone selling a firearm less than someone selling a table saw?

If I were buying from Amazon, the I would have no problem paying up front. All sellers on Amazon have very high standards that they are held to. If they do not live up to those standards, then they are not allowed to sell on Amazon anymore.

Also, all online sales are transacted using a credit card. If a seller fails to meet their obligation, then the buyer is protected by the credit card company. I suppose I would not have a problem paying an individual in advance if they accepted a credit card and did not charge a fee. Otherwise, keep your gun and your table saw or find someone else who trusts you more than I do.

HandsomeBonobo · Sep 19, 2016

It seems there are lots of ways to go about this. It's good to hear that the initial paperwork doesn't require the seller to forfeit legal ownership in the case of a sale falling through.

FTF sales thru MSP - When to exchange $$?

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