Does anyone know the answer to this death by hanguns statistic?

Amigo109 · Feb 3, 2018

I'm really curious about this. The statistics about gun related deaths that are always thrown around includes deaths caused by criminals who do not obey gun laws (so laws won't stop their behavior) and also include suicides (which account for about half of handgun related deaths if I recall correctly.)

Here's the Stat that I want to know, and that I think pro gun rights legislate should cry from the roof tops so to speak.

1. How many murders per year are committed by people using handguns that are registered to them.

2. How many accidental deaths by firearm occur where the firearm is registered to the person involved.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread. I don't know if this statistic even exists. If it doesn't, it should.

lx1x · Feb 3, 2018

I doubt there is a public info to those specifics.. Unless you ask the state directly under freedom info act.

doggyjacket · Feb 3, 2018

I think this is the kind of discussion you're trying to start:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...long-time-about-crime/?utm_term=.c861bcaf71a7

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...-joe-scarborough-tiny-fraction-crimes-commit/

Articles kind of old, but there are quite a few more hits when Googling for this type of information.

Unfortunately, this doesn't matter to the anti-gun crowd. The numbers are pretty clear and I think most sources would agree that of the ~33k gun deaths per year, ~63% are suicides, which leaves ~33% as homicides, with the rest being accidental. And of that 33%, something like 80% are homicides committed with illegal guns.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Bottom line. Legal gun owners commit relatively few gun homicides.

But the left doesn't care. They are perfectly happy to disarm legal owners because it "feels good" even if it will have 0 effect on criminals.

Amigo109 · Feb 3, 2018

I can't beleive it. The first one especially is what we need to know. I guarantee it's a tiny number compared to the total amount of handgun homicides. And I used the word murder to eliminate the suicides. I think it's common sense that someone wouldn't commit suicide only because a handgun makes it easy. I think if someone is willing to go that route, they'll find a way. So the number of suicides should be removed from any firearm deaths stats.

Threeband · Feb 3, 2018

What is this "registered" of which you speak?

lx1x · Feb 3, 2018

Threeband said:
What is this "registered" of which you speak?

Killed buy bought gun themselves vs stolen or black market guns.

EL1227 · Feb 3, 2018

Does anyone know the answer to this death by handguns statistic?

See my response on the Ramirez thread HERE to "Does anyone know the answer to this death by handguns statistic?"

rascal · Feb 4, 2018

Amigo109 said:
I'm really curious about this. The statistics about gun related deaths that are always thrown around includes deaths caused by criminals who do not obey gun laws (so laws won't stop their behavior) and also include suicides (which account for about half of handgun related deaths if I recall correctly.)

Here's the Stat that I want to know, and that I think pro gun rights legislate should cry from the roof tops so to speak.

1. How many murders per year are committed by people using handguns that are registered to them.

2. How many accidental deaths by firearm occur where the firearm is registered to the person involved.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread. I don't know if this statistic even exists. If it doesn't, it should.

1) About 2/3 of gun deaths are suicide. We know from Australia that if you remove guns you get a displacement to other means rather than a drop in overall suicide.

2) On how many are legally owned by homicide perps, we know that in the jurisdictions that have checked that from 85% to 93% of murder perps have criminal records. From 75% to 80% have felony records or ten or more arrests. so conservatively at least 75% of murder perps are already prohibited and somewhere under 25% are legally owned.

3) Most US voluntary homicide is criminal on criminal. The Baltimore study that found 93% of murder perps had prior criminal records, found 91% of murder victims have criminal records as well. If you are not a criminal you are no higher homicide risk in the US than you are in the developed democracy average. The same risk factor goes to owning a gun and risk t your family. If you are a criminal risk of you and your family being a victim of gun or other criminal violence is sharply elevated. If you are not a criminal owning a firearm makes your household safer from criminal violence.

4) the trends are important. US gun murder rate is down about 60% since the early 1990's. Most Americans polled believe it is flat or up when it is profoundly down.

rascal · Feb 4, 2018

EL1227 said:
See my response on the Ramirez thread HERE to "Does anyone know the answer to this death by handguns statistic?"

Rate of US murder by guns is profoundly down over the past 25 years, down by about 60% per capita.

In term of suicide, we know from Australia, which did a sharp and quick reduction in gun access, that at first they thought they reduced suicide, but just transferred the same amount of suicide to other means, about half of the reduction other means ruled as suicide, and about half to a sharp and otherwise unexplained increase in "accidental" or "undetermined "self caused death by other means"

Essentially for every 20 less gun suicides, they saw 10 more suicides by other means, and 10 more in a clear increase "accidental deaths" by means commonly associated with suicide. Unless we posit that Australian became immediately and inexplicably more clumsy, fell off of cliffs more often, swam out to sea more often, accidentally drank poison more often -- all exactly when guns were confiscated -- then one would have to agree with half a dozen peer reviewed studies in Australia saying their overall suicide rate never changed.

In fact Australia's homicide rate decrease, ballyhooed in the Washington post wonkblog was LESS if a decrease than the US saw in decade after its own peak.

montoya32 · Feb 4, 2018

Amigo109 said:
I'm really curious about this. The statistics about gun related deaths that are always thrown around includes deaths caused by criminals who do not obey gun laws (so laws won't stop their behavior) and also include suicides (which account for about half of handgun related deaths if I recall correctly.)

Here's the Stat that I want to know, and that I think pro gun rights legislate should cry from the roof tops so to speak.

1. How many murders per year are committed by people using handguns that are registered to them.

2. How many accidental deaths by firearm occur where the firearm is registered to the person involved.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread. I don't know if this statistic even exists. If it doesn't, it should.

I'm sure that Marylanders to Prevent Gun Violence or Moms Demand Action have this info.

Oh, wait. Their "expert" witness in Annapolis 3 weeks ago had no clue when asked.

Next!

Biggfoot44 · Feb 4, 2018

You won't be able to get the first stat , because in much of 'Murica gun are able to legally be bought, sold, traded, given, etc between non-Prohibited persons without gov't interference . But as noted you can closely enough make your point from % of previously convicted felons , aka Prohibited.

The number of accidents is so small, and dropping, little point in persuing.

Main thing is when ever they mention "gun deaths" for ( particular location, time frame ) , counter with the actual numbers for * Murder and Non-Negligent Homicide * as listed in UCR .

Also watch when they throw around the word " domestic " . In the complete detailed UCR , will feature section of " relationship between victim and killer " .The catagories of intrest are Married , family members , persons sharing household . They will make up a definition along the lines of anyone ever socialized at any time , and claim numbers up to ten times the hard numbers from UCR .

Amigo109 · Feb 5, 2018

Thanks to those that replied. You guys really know your stuff. I know that when it comes to people with an anti-gun mentality, facts are often thrown out the window and replaced with "muh feelings". But this will come in handy when I'm discussing gun rights in the future plus it was something I was really curious about personally.

foxtrapper · Feb 5, 2018

Only a handful of states require some registration scheme. Most are anti gun states deep in the blue. MD has a defacto handgun registration for every handgun bought/sold legally in the state. It would be worth it to compile this data for MD by itself, as something to toss back at the antis here. I am willing to bet that the # is 10% or less, and the other 90% are stolen/trafficked guns and possessed by a very high % of people too young to buy 1 legally and NOT legally gifted to them by a parent, and/or have disqualifying criminal records and have the guns illegally. But to the antis, we are the problem. LOL. And its 100% our fault if some junkie breaks in our house and steals a gun. Yet the antis never offer to subsidize for us to all have good quality [expensive] safes. Really, a locked door SHOULD be enough.

Does anyone know the answer to this death by hanguns statistic?

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