Kharn
Ultimate Member
If you taught this stuff for a living, a Glock 18 would be only a few bucks more than a Glock 17.
Suppressed Pistol Porn-Shhhhhhhhh
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Of course. I said what I did not from theory, but from experience.
You seem to be taking my comment about foregrips personally. I'm sorry if it offended you, but I was speaking about the use of equipment to overcome a deficiency in training. I don't have Glock 18s or any other FA pistols at work, just MP5s, P90s, M4s, and a couple full-size Uzis. I have fired the G18 before during a manufacturer demo, and while it was harder to shoot that the other FAs I've done, it was tamable.
If you have fired one before, and found it as uncontrollable as you allude to in your previous comment, I'm sorry to say then its you, not the gun, that needs improvement. You may think that is a not-nice thing for me to say, but its the truth.
I can't get youtube at work to show you an example, but I'm sure if you searched a bit, you'd find a few videos of folks shooting them properly, mixed in with the ones of guys shooting their own hands.
This has become quite a drift from one little comment. If you wish to continue in PM, I'm happy to oblige, but I think maybe we need some more pictures being posted here.
...and no, kharn, I don't get that sort of discount unfortunately.
rrrrrrkevin
Its comin right for me!
you know what forget it,your absolutely right there is no purpose for a forward grip. with a good 2 handed grip you can serve the same purpose,and with an automatic pistol and a 2 handed grip you are more likely to place more rounds on or near target than with a forward grip,infact buttstocks are worthless too on rifles and if you shift your weight forward slightly it removes the need for a buttstock too. i cant believe i even argued that one
rrrrrrkevin
Its comin right for me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgz5rlTInaQ&feature=related
its all clear now that i found your video
its all clear now that i found your video
rrrrrrkevin
Its comin right for me!
nice post edit,that video of the guy shooting his own hand was because he took a gangster grip that was supposed to go on a rifle and he put it on a
glock18 and it snapped off, the beretta 93R is a better example it has one permanently attached and will not break off causing you to shoot yourself in the hand
glock18 and it snapped off, the beretta 93R is a better example it has one permanently attached and will not break off causing you to shoot yourself in the hand
Yes, and that was exactly what I was refering to: putting an aftermarket foregrip on a pistol, since the two posts about foregrips previous to mine were these two
ETA: If you want to discuss the effectiveness of the Glock vs Beretta in full-auto because of the grip or lack thereof, that would be a different story, and probably make for interesting discussion. However, my focus this entire time, as I've said before, has been about the basic issue of seeking improved effectiveness with equipment when shooter's technique is the real variable that needs work.
Kevp
Ultimate Member
- Apr 17, 2008
- 1,874
Couple of things regarding the whole pistol grip thing:
Most of those straight pistols that have been converted (even if they are factory, they started life as a pistol, i.e. G18 and B93R) to machine pistols have provisions for attaching a stock. Keep in mind that some of these guns were designed as straight-up subguns or machine pistols, i.e. MAC series, Micro UZI, Steyr, etc.. They became pistols when manufacturers made semi- auto versions and removed the shoulder stocks in order to sell them to the civilian market in non-NFA form. The intent of these weapons in full auto was primarily a PDW role. The foregrip makes sense with a stock attached, but not without it- I agree with Rob Moore on that point.
I'm also curious as to how many have actually fired any of these full auto pistols? Rob has fired a G18 at a demo and I have a couple thousand rounds behind a G18. I can tell you from experience that Rob is correct- you will hit mo betta using an aggressive isosceles stance, proper two handed grip and leaning hard into the gun. We're not talking mag dump here, this is 3-5rd bursts. With the exception of the G18, Beretta 93R, or CZ, any of the other possibilities would most likely have a stock in full auto form and a foregrip makes sense.
Most of those straight pistols that have been converted (even if they are factory, they started life as a pistol, i.e. G18 and B93R) to machine pistols have provisions for attaching a stock. Keep in mind that some of these guns were designed as straight-up subguns or machine pistols, i.e. MAC series, Micro UZI, Steyr, etc.. They became pistols when manufacturers made semi- auto versions and removed the shoulder stocks in order to sell them to the civilian market in non-NFA form. The intent of these weapons in full auto was primarily a PDW role. The foregrip makes sense with a stock attached, but not without it- I agree with Rob Moore on that point.
I'm also curious as to how many have actually fired any of these full auto pistols? Rob has fired a G18 at a demo and I have a couple thousand rounds behind a G18. I can tell you from experience that Rob is correct- you will hit mo betta using an aggressive isosceles stance, proper two handed grip and leaning hard into the gun. We're not talking mag dump here, this is 3-5rd bursts. With the exception of the G18, Beretta 93R, or CZ, any of the other possibilities would most likely have a stock in full auto form and a foregrip makes sense.
rrrrrrkevin
Its comin right for me!
rob I apologize I guess I was beeing touchy about the forward grip because I do think that forward grips do have theyre place and that guy in the glock forward grip snap off video is a dummy for putting a rifle grip onto a pistol,I have never fired a G18 so I shouldnt remark on that like I did but I have quite abit of trigger time behind your common military FA's like the 240 the 249 the M16 the M4 and even the MK19 and in things like that you really depend on the weight of the gun to keep it from hopping around and none of these you would fire with 2 hands on the pistol grip
so I apologize for jumping all in your shit (I dont believe a pistol grip is a crutch though)
so I apologize for jumping all in your shit (I dont believe a pistol grip is a crutch though)
We have similar experience in the long guns department. Its a different animal. Different rules apply.
Finally home, so I found one of the vids I was refering to.
(I didn't watch yours, the opening scene told me all I needed to know)
For some reason embedding wasn't working for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE_cz56HSRM
The guy in blue gets the hang of it after a couple times.
Finally home, so I found one of the vids I was refering to.
(I didn't watch yours, the opening scene told me all I needed to know)
For some reason embedding wasn't working for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE_cz56HSRM
The guy in blue gets the hang of it after a couple times.
MauiWowie
I have the SIGness...
All words where is the Porn!!!!
You tell us. I can't believe you don't have at least one of those sig's threaded yet...
Kharn
Ultimate Member
Its not a discount, if you have an SOT and a demo letter (which should be easy to get if you're training LEOs), Glock 18s cost about the same as a Glock 17's MSRP.
boatbiologist
Active Member
dwnthehatch
10-32
snavematt
say what?
not nice pics, but here is my contribution
JeepDriver
Self confessed gun snob
I've got something new to add.
Guess I need to get the camera and gun out for a quick session.
Guess I need to get the camera and gun out for a quick session.
TheSwiftOne
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 134
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