Penalty For Unauthorized Carry?

Cold Steel · Sep 15, 2017

Due process is such a waste of time....

People can make citizens arrests, so how can one arrest a cop? Yeah, right. Fighting such forfeitures takes too much time and money.

.....Video: » Cops Or Robbers?

We should at least be able to ask cops how much money they have on them! But lying to cops is illegal, and that's what concerns me. If you lie and say, “I don't have a lot of money on me," that's like a personal invitation to take your stuff.

3paul10 · Sep 15, 2017

I make it a practice to never trust a cop :whack:

BradMacc82 · Sep 15, 2017

Cold Steel said:
In the case of the person you know, can you give us any details?

Long story short, he fvcked up. Plain and simple.

Returning home from a shoot in Va, convicted felon showed up so he de-assed the house he was going to stay at that night (left Va right around midnight). Had been up nearly 30hrs straight, legally carrying the entire time. Simply forgot to make himself 'MD compliant' for the trip home.

Got stopped for allegedly speeding, visible rifle cases in the cab of the truck were used as PC for search. Soon as he went to exit the truck, in his own words "I turned my hip, felt the weight, and knew nothing good was going to come of it".

Given the circumstances, the interaction with LE was polite and professional (no tazing, boot to the neck, taken to ground, etc.), but he still wound up taking the ride and getting processed.

Had to forfeit the sidearm that was on his hip as part of the plea, judge ordered the remaining $9K worth of rifles be returned. PBJ period passed w/out incident, now he's waiting to file for expungement.

Schipperke · Sep 15, 2017

3paul10 said:
I never trust the cops.

3paul10 · Sep 15, 2017

Schipperke said:

What...thats what Ive learned around here....from some.... :innocent0

Mark75H · Sep 16, 2017

esqappellate said:
You are *never* required to talk to the police. NOR are you required to respond to their questions. EG: Q: Do you have guns in your car? A. Officer, I would like to go home, am I free to leave? Repeat. IF he says no, then it becomes a de facto arrest. Assert expressly your 5th Amendment right to silence and 6th Amendment right to counsel.

And if the officer does not answer the question asked repeatedly? To me refusing to answer would be an implied "no" and I would expect to be charged with "fleeing" if I left without a response.

esqappellate · Sep 16, 2017

Cold Steel said:
Due process is such a waste of time....

People can make citizens arrests, so how can one arrest a cop? Yeah, right. Fighting such forfeitures takes too much time and money.

.....Video: » Cops Or Robbers?

We should at least be able to ask cops how much money they have on them! But lying to cops is illegal, and that's what concerns me. If you lie and say, “I don't have a lot of money on me," that's like a personal invitation to take your stuff.

Lying to federal officers is illegal. 18 USC 1001. Lying to other LEOs is dependent on state law.

esqappellate · Sep 16, 2017

Cold Steel said:
Thanks for your replies and observations.

In the video, you'll hear a cop ask a man if he has any large sums of money on him. By invoking the Fifth, I realize a cop cannot cite probable cause (i.e., “he refused to answer the question, leading me to suspect he was carrying a large sum of money, guns, etc."); however, I've heard cops boast that they can justify a search in almost any situation. I'm not an attorney, but what if an officer said, “I thought I heard sounds coming from the trunk," or, “There was a strange odor coming from the car" or “he was acting unusually nervous" or some other contrivance? Or, if the officer says, “I asked him if he had a large amount of money and he declined to answer. Then I [insert excuse] and when he opened the trunk I discovered the money."

Now if an officer manages to compel one to open the trunk and he sees a briefcase or a Xerox box, does that officer have the right to search it?

In the case of the person you know, can you give us any details? I've heard in Baltimore that cops have been known to illegally search people on the street, and in some cases allegedly planting incriminating evidence.

Street searches are easier for cops to justify. “He had a bulge" or, “He kept patting his back waistline." True, it may only be a cell phone, but cops find it easier to justify a street search than a car search.

Makes no difference unless your name happens to be Hillary Clinton.

If the officer is willing to lie, there is not much you can do about other than to trust your attorney to expose it at trial. That at least give you a defense, where as consent is a complete waiver and a failure to assert the 5th Amendment privilege is likewise a waiver of that right. Don't waive your rights. My mantra. If he has probable cause to search your trunk, he has probably probable cause to search the contents of the trunk. Depends on what he is searching for under his probable cause. For example, if he has probable cause to search for a dead body or a stolen TV, it's not likely to be in a small gun safe.

esqappellate · Sep 16, 2017

Mark75H said:
And if the officer does not answer the question asked repeatedly? To me refusing to answer would be an implied "no" and I would expect to be charged with "fleeing" if I left without a response.

DON'T Leave unless he says you can. Just sit there, forever, if necessary. Meanwhile call your spouse (spousal privilege) and and your lawyer (atty-client privilege) to tell them what's going on. Leave voice mail.

esqappellate · Sep 16, 2017

MikeTF said:
Thank you! Somewhere, somehow, every parent should be teaching their kids to respond this way in all situations that apply.

When my kids were under 18, I told them to say that they want to talk to their dad before answering any questions and say nothing else. Practice the mantra. They will forget otherwise. A parent can assert the legal rights of their minor child. Do so.

Bob A · Sep 16, 2017

Mark75H said:
And if the officer does not answer the question asked repeatedly? To me refusing to answer would be an implied "no" and I would expect to be charged with "fleeing" if I left without a response.

Perhaps one could consider requesting the officer involve his supervisor in the affair.

Voice recorder switched on when being stopped might also help, especially if covert.

md_06unltd · Sep 16, 2017

Cold Steel said:
Transporting a firearm between states should be subject to federal regs and free of state regs. The idea of stopping at borders and rearranging things are maddening. The NRA at one point wanted to support a "shall issue" law that would be federal. Even some conservatives didn't like the idea of the feds telling the states what laws they should have -- and at the time I could see their point. (It's easy to see how such a law could go south with a few federal votes on something like that.) After living in Maryland, though, it's hard to see how things could get worse.

Where'd ya get that photo? That's from the early 1980's
:lol:

eurocarnut · Sep 26, 2017

danb said:
If one is willing to break the law regardless of consequences, this person is not much better than the thugs in Baltimore. Maybe I should shop paying taxes because I think Social Security and Obamacare is socialism and unconstitutional too.

Wow. Just wow. People like you are the reason this state is so ****ed.

If a bear shits in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

lazarus · Sep 26, 2017

boundlessdyad said:
You CAN transport unloaded in an enclosed holster. The out of reach in the vehicle stuff is made up by MSP, it's not the law, although it may keep you from getting shot.

That is the law if you want to be covered by FOPA. He mentioned driving through MD. Thus you’d be covered under FOPA if the firearm is unloaded and stored in manner not easily accessible from the passenger cabin. I believe it specifically calls out the glove box or console, even if locking, do not count.

Under maryland law, for instate transport (so not FOPA covered) the rules for a handgun are different and more relaxed than FOPA requirements.

swinokur · Sep 26, 2017

yep. Trips that start and end in MD are covered by MD 4-203, not FOPA

marylandmark · Sep 26, 2017

redeemed.man · Sep 27, 2017

lazarus said:
That is the law if you want to be covered by FOPA. He mentioned driving through MD. Thus you’d be covered under FOPA if the firearm is unloaded and stored in manner not easily accessible from the passenger cabin. I believe it specifically calls out the glove box or console, even if locking, do not count.

Under maryland law, for instate transport (so not FOPA covered) the rules for a handgun are different and more relaxed than FOPA requirements.

swinokur said:
yep. Trips that start and end in MD are covered by MD 4-203, not FOPA

Which would be nearly every trip involving a Maryland resident.

swinokur · Sep 27, 2017

I wish the MD GA would add interstate travel to the list of exceptions to the current prohibitions.

fishertodd · Sep 27, 2017

Cold Steel said:
Due process is such a waste of time....

People can make citizens arrests, so how can one arrest a cop? Yeah, right. Fighting such forfeitures takes too much time and money.

.....Video: » Cops Or Robbers?

We should at least be able to ask cops how much money they have on them! But lying to cops is illegal, and that's what concerns me. If you lie and say, “I don't have a lot of money on me," that's like a personal invitation to take your stuff.

5th amendment and the right to remain silent? Why would you be answering his questions so that your answers could later be used against you?

Hakuna Matata · Sep 29, 2017

danb said:
If one is willing to break the law regardless of consequences, this person is not much better than the thugs in Baltimore. Maybe I should shop paying taxes because I think Social Security and Obamacare is socialism and unconstitutional too.

Just bc something is legal doesn't make it right and just bc something is illegal doesn't make it wrong.

There have have been some incredibly unfair laws enacted in this country and I'm not even going to pretend that I follow the law just bc the govt says I should.

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