I thought that's what Frosh and the rest of the MGA have already been doing for a long time.
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I thought that's what Frosh and the rest of the MGA have already been doing for a long time.
True, but JHS was asking about snail mail, so I focused on that. I remember the learning curve we went through when facsimile machines and overnight courier services were developed...when it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight.
The law always lags behind societal and technological developments, so it seldom pays to be on the cutting edge of some things. Now where did I put my wax seal?
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
The same large body of law now exists around email communications. Time stamps, send and receive logs, and header information, as well as the content of the messages, can all be used evidentially in court.
Thanks for the insult, but all I was trying to do was to point out that there's not some special legal magic that applies if you use the post office as opposed to another traceable means of delivery like email.
I'll be doing some fast shooting today, is anyone brave enough to shoot tomorrow? Probably will not need your proof of application until your court date. ?
CypherPunk
Opinions Are My Own
- Apr 6, 2012
- 3,907
No it doesn’t, and just because something can be used as evidence in court does not mean it will be persuasive.
I can’t understand why you are so intent on being argumentative.
Return receipt saved me a mortgage payment! My first house,first mortgage. Sent the first payment 2 weeks early. 4 weeks later I get hit with a late fee and a demand for the payment. Called the only number I had (payment book had not even arrived yet), and some woman said "i think I saw that around here". A male voice came on the line "you NEVER sent that payment! PAY the late fee!". SO.. I sent every other payment return receipt. Sure enough they tried it again a year or so later. When they sent the 'late payment ' notice, I contacted their legal department ,told them they beat me out of one late fee by throwing away my check, but I had the receipt that they had received it. When asked if I would still send another check if they waved the fee, I politely told them to find the check they threw away. Never did replace the check, never needed to, they posted the payment as payed on time, check was NEVER cashed.(guess they actually did throw it in the trash)..
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That is my understanding as well.
j_h_smith
Ultimate Member
- Jul 28, 2007
- 28,516
What would hurt if you were to send it BOTH ways?
That's what I did.
That's what I did.
bobthefisher
Durka ninja
I've sent one snail-mail two weeks ago, and one email.
BTW, this is another reason to own a machinegun.
"Yup officer, that was my legal machinegun... go call it in, I don't give a sh!t"
That's of course if someone just called it in based on sound... pew pew pew pew pew
BTW, this is another reason to own a machinegun.
"Yup officer, that was my legal machinegun... go call it in, I don't give a sh!t"
That's of course if someone just called it in based on sound... pew pew pew pew pew
j_h_smith
Ultimate Member
- Jul 28, 2007
- 28,516
Has anyone gotten their return receipt yet????
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
Yes, it does. There is PLENTY of case law that revolves around the use of electronic communications.
I can't understand why you can't or won't explain what specific legal protections you think exist around the use of physical mail that don't exist around electronic communications and instead chose to be insulting about it when I asked.
It wouldn't hurt at all.
Remember, MSI even said in their email communications that you could email the application to ATF, and provided an address to use for that purpose.
Sure, rub it in.
Nope, Pony Express girl comes on Wednesdays though.
iH8DemLibz
When All Else Fails.
j_h_smith
Ultimate Member
- Jul 28, 2007
- 28,516
That's why I sent a copy of my application via email yesterday. If I never get my receipt from the USPS, I at least have my email from them that they received something from me.
How would the law see it if you have a USPS page saying that your letter had been delivered, but never received your return receipt from the USPS? Since there's nothing specifically from the ATF saying they received it, I don't know how that would work.
Just curious.
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
FWIW:
I got my "official" response from ATF from my emailed application form this morning:
I'd say that constitutes acceptable proof that I have applied and am now legal to continue owning any such devices until next October.
I got my "official" response from ATF from my emailed application form this morning:
I'd say that constitutes acceptable proof that I have applied and am now legal to continue owning any such devices until next October.
j_h_smith
Ultimate Member
- Jul 28, 2007
- 28,516
Carry on......
CypherPunk
Opinions Are My Own
- Apr 6, 2012
- 3,907
The USPS should have given you a Certified Mail receipt upon mailing.
That, along with a copy of your letter is all the proof you need.
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