AR Transfer Rules

MG in MD said:

Sorry. Having grown up in the great city, I have to correct you.

The proper term is “Baltimoron”.

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Or is it, Bawlmoron? Lol

71Chevelle427 said:

Or is it, Bawlmoron? Lol

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Only if you’re from Dundalk, hon!

MG in MD said:

Only if you’re from Dundalk, hon!

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You mean DunDOCK?

wowmattsays said:

Once it is a pistol, it can "never be turned back into a rifle", and upon transfer from one private individual to another, must be done through an FFL or the MDSP. Unreal.

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In correct.

If it is a rifle, it cannot be turned into a pistol. AT ALL.

If it is a pistol, it can be turned into a rifle. AND BACK INTO A PISTOL.

So many people build their lowers as pistols first, then make into a rifle. To have the option to go back.

wowmattsays said:

lol crazy is an understatement! the laws are so contradictory, they are ONLY in place to restrict us law-abiding citizens and make our lives more difficult. What is even funnier is if you purchase a stripped lower from an FFL, you are absolutely legally able to build it into a pistol! Once it is a pistol, it can "never be turned back into a rifle", and upon transfer from one private individual to another, must be done through an FFL or the MDSP. Unreal.

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Entirely incorrect, if it is built into a pistol, per ATF, it can be built into a rifle and back again. If it is built as a rifle, it can NEVER be built into a pistol.

Mightydog said:

A lower is just that...neither a rifle OR pistol. But since it can be built into a pistol it requires HQL and 7-day wait. If you decide to complete as a rifle it can never go back. Legally!

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Per MSP, no HQL is required to purchase a stripped lower, just the 77r and the 7 day wait.

71Chevelle427 said:

so...if you buy a COMPLETE LOWER, via a 77R, and listed as "OTHER", and take it home, pin on a MARYLAND COMPLIANT HBAR complete upper, it becomes a complete RIFLE...

Is that RIFLE legally sold FTF, or requiring an FFL?

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Once it becomes a rifle, no FFL or MSP involvement is required to transfer ti further.

dblas said:

Per MSP, no HQL is required to purchase a stripped lower, just the 77r and the 7 day wait.

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Ok. But what about a private sale of a stripped lower. I think that’s where I’m still unclear.

wowmattsays said:

The issue arises when a lower is offered for sale without a pre-attached upper that makes it into an HBAR, non-HBAR, SBR, Pistol, etc. In MD, when a private individual transfers a "non-regulated" firearm (which includes non-AR long guns - overall length >26", shotguns, and HBAR AR's) to another private individual, there is no governing legislation restricting the transfer. Since a lower that has not been built into "anything" yet has the potential to become a regulated firearm (SBR, Pistol, non-HBAR), then THAT transfer must be done through an FFL, which I believe includes a NICS check.

I am NOT a lawyer, simply a private individual, and this is my best guess interpretation of the MD law as it currently reads. NOTE! Magazines >10 rounds of ANY variation are not able to be transferred from one individual to another under ANY circumstances, private or not.

As stated, if I'm wrong, I'll be corrected shortly!

-Wow

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Not to be a jerk about this, but you're partially incorrect there, as you have been several times in this thread.

The *ONLY* things that the actual law says that we need to do a 77R for are "regulated firearms." Once upon a time (before October 1, 2013) this meant all handguns and rifles that were on the list of regulated rifles. After October 1, 2013, all previously regulated rifles are now banned. So the only things for which the written law (i.e. the actual statute) says that we have to do a 77R for are handguns, because there are no more transferable regulated rifles.

MSP have decided that they are going to step outside the law, and use their administrative power over licensed FFLs (in Maryland, there is a separate state licensure for FFLs who deal in regulated firearms above and beyond the Federal stuff, which is administered by MSP) to require that everyone who is buying a stripped lower do a 77R.

There is zero basis for this in the actual law, but MSP just tells the dealers that their licenses will be revoked if they don't do it.

Therefore, legally you can buy or sell a stripped lower face-to-face without any paperwork if you want to.

Now, if MSP became aware of this, it is possible they would try to get you on some BS charge, but you're not actually breaking the law.

OP, to answer your specific question:

I’ve seen some built AR’s, and some lowers, offered for sale. Some say to be transfered at FFL, some say ftf.

What’s the rules about private transfers of AR’s?

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You can not sell a banned AR in this state, period. A banned AR15 is any that either:

1. Is not an HBAR or
2. Fails the OAL or "evil feature" tests. (i.e. is shorter than 29" in OAL or has more than one of: a folding stock, a flash suppressor, a grenade launcher)

So if it's banned, you can't sell it, period.

If it's not banned (i.e. it's an HBAR that doesn't fail the feature test or OAL test) then you can sell it face to face with no paperwork required. Some people have an FFL do it anyways just to be safe, because the FFL can run a NICS check as part of the process.

As far as lowers go, I covered that above. Technically you can sell stripped lowers face to face but MSP says that you're supposed to do a 77R on them.

MG in MD said:

Ok. But what about a private sale of a stripped lower. I think that’s where I’m still unclear.

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You posted as I was typing my novel above, but as I said, there is noting in the law that prohibits a face to face sale of a stripped lower. MSP has decided that it is their policy that you're supposed to do a 77R on them.

A receiver is not a hangun, nor is it a rifle. A 77R is only legally required on a handgun per the statute.

MG in MD said:

Ok. But what about a private sale of a stripped lower. I think that’s where I’m still unclear.

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Since it is not classified as a regulated firearm directly in Maryland law, my opinion would be no MSP of FFL involvement needed.

Hawkeye said:

You posted as I was typing my novel above, but as I said, there is noting in the law that prohibits a face to face sale of a stripped lower. MSP has decided that it is their policy that you're supposed to do a 77R on them.

A receiver is not a hangun, nor is it a rifle. A 77R is only legally required on a handgun per the statute.

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Thanks for all the info!

I guess if MSP is requiring a 77R because a lower might be made into a handgun, I might be inclined to transfer a stripped lower at a state police barracks.

I guess it gets tricky between determining if the stripped lower you are buying has ever been built into a rifle or a handgun, or is new and never built into anything. I understand how the law says once it’s built into a rifle it cannot be built into a pistol, but for a stripped lower, how would they ever know which it was if it was never registered/transferred as either.

Pretty crazy stuff. I like the earlier comment about AR Jeopardy!

That's why I Frequently refer to "Virgin" recievers . If you buy it new , you know its complete history . Same idea with " pistol grip only things that go bang , and resemble shotguns " .

MG in MD said:

I guess it gets tricky between determining if the stripped lower you are buying has ever been built into a rifle or a handgun, or is new and never built into anything.

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For what it's worth (and I know this isn't what you were originally asking) that has zero bearing on MD state law either. If the lower is stripped when it is being sold, then it is a *lower* and not either:

a) a banned rifle, which would be illegal to sell, or
b) a handgun, which you would need to do a 77R and transfer at an FFL or MSP

So for our state law what it has been in the past has no bearing on the need to do a 77R to transfer it, because being either a or b above is predicated on it having certain physical features which it would not have if it was stripped when sold.

I understand how the law says once it’s built into a rifle it cannot be built into a pistol,

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That's not quite precisely right. The ATF has decided that if it is built into a rifle first then it is a rifle "forever" and can not be made into a pistol later on. However if it is built into a pistol first then you can go back and forth as much as you want from pistol -> rifle -> pistol etc.

but for a stripped lower, how would they ever know which it was if it was never registered/transferred as either.

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They wouldn't know. Like so much of the ATF's other BS (see the opinion letters on pistol braces and "intent" when you build them) it's going in to the realm of policing thought crime. That particular bit is nearly unenforcable, unless you get someone who is dumb enough to buy a rifle and then take that lower and make a pistol out of it (because the MFR would know that it was originally sold as a rifle). With a lower that's originally sold stripped, it's literally impossible to enforce.

dblas said:

Since it is not classified as a regulated firearm directly in Maryland law, my opinion would be no MSP of FFL involvement needed.

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If I bought a stripped lower, and was required by MSP to complete a 77R thru a FFL, I would make sure I transferred to a buyer at the MSP barracks. Otherwise your name is on that lower for eternity. Used in a crime, etc. comes back to me. I know what the law says and I know what MSP says BUT lawyers are expensive to prove your point. We can go on forever and the only thing that becomes clear is that Maryland gun laws are fvckedup!

Even if you transfer it at MSP, it will be in "your" name forever. MSP does not remove it from you to the other person.

And a simple bill of sale will show that you sold it and no longer possess it.

Pinecone said:

Even if you transfer it at MSP, it will be in "your" name forever. MSP does not remove it from you to the other person.

And a simple bill of sale will show that you sold it and no longer possess it.

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I was just about to say that.

There is no process that "deregisters" a regulated firearm if you sell it. Once you buy it, it's attached to your name forever, even if you sell it to another person in MD and they do the whole 77R process.

In addition, I've sold regulated firearms (pistols and rifles both, back before FSA 2013) to buyers out of state. I shipped them directly to the buyer's FFL, so Maryland has no record of anyone else owning them but me. I have bills of sale for them and the like, but that's the only way that MD would know that I didn't own them any more.

Mightydog said:

If I bought a stripped lower, and was required by MSP to complete a 77R thru a FFL, I would make sure I transferred to a buyer at the MSP barracks. Otherwise your name is on that lower for eternity. Used in a crime, etc. comes back to me. I know what the law says and I know what MSP says BUT lawyers are expensive to prove your point. We can go on forever and the only thing that becomes clear is that Maryland gun laws are fvckedup!

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The receiver will still associated with you in their database, as the receiver is never removed from a list of firearms you own, even after you transfer them.