What gun shot this case?

StickShaker · Nov 21, 2016

Picked up a bunch of 53 WCC .45 ACP brass and I'm curious if anyone knows the firearm? A good number of them have a flat spot on the mouth and an indentation on the side. Both features are always clocked the same too. In the pic the flat is at 6:00 and the mark on the side is around 8:00. I don't know if it was fired by the military or sold as surplus.

This is the oldest brass I have ever worked with and I noticed that it takes more effort to resize, like the brass is much harder. Any good/bad thoughts on this?

Edit: Duh...forget the resize comment. I just measured the case wall and it's .002 thicker then newer brass.

iH8DemLibz · Nov 21, 2016

Going with 1911.

The flat is from making contact with the ground.

Dimple replaced the crimp? My 1918 Remington-UMC rounds have three dimples.

StickShaker · Nov 21, 2016

iH8DemLibz said:
Going with 1911.

The flat is from making contact with the ground.

Dimple replaced the crimp? My 1918 Remington-UMC rounds have three dimples.

The flats seem too consistent and there is always a dimple to go along with the flat. The cases with no flat don't have a dimple either so I think the particular gun is causing both.

iH8DemLibz · Nov 21, 2016

StickShaker said:
The flats seem too consistent and there is always a dimple to go along with the flat. The cases with no flat don't have a dimple either so I think the particular gun is causing both.

OK. That's weird.

StickShaker · Nov 21, 2016

iH8DemLibz said:
OK. That's weird.

I got to thinking about your dimple/crimp comment and looked at more cases. The dimple ranges from deep, like in the pic, to almost not visible. Most are a little above or below the serrated crimp but some like in the pic is right on it. The clocking is always the same with the flat spot so I don't see how it could be from hitting the ground.

StickShaker · Nov 22, 2016

Looking at the pic I'm seeing another mark on the bottom of the case at around 9:30. Extractor? I checked the location and it's always around 180 degrees in relation to the dimple. It seems like there may be a pin in the receiver wall that pokes out when the bolt is all of the way back to help eject the cartridge. Machine gun?

yellowfin · Nov 22, 2016

I'm thinking either an Ingram or a Grease Gun.

jimbobborg · Nov 22, 2016

1911s without the relief cut by the ejection port can cause the flat spots.

j_h_smith · Nov 22, 2016

1911 would be my guess.

Is this a Karma post? :innocent0

SKIP · Nov 22, 2016

That dimple may be a form of crimping. The APC head spaces on the case mouth.

StickShaker · Nov 22, 2016

StickShaker said:
I got to thinking about your dimple/crimp comment and looked at more cases. The dimple ranges from deep, like in the pic, to almost not visible. Most are a little above or below the serrated crimp but some like in the pic is right on it. The clocking is always the same with the flat spot so I don't see how it could be from hitting the ground.

StickShaker said:
Looking at the pic I'm seeing another mark on the bottom of the case at around 9:30. Extractor? I checked the location and it's always around 180 degrees in relation to the dimple. It seems like there may be a pin in the receiver wall that pokes out when the bolt is all of the way back to help eject the cartridge. Machine gun?

SKIP said:
That dimple may be a form of crimping. The APC head spaces on the case mouth.

The extractor mark, dimple, and mouth flat are always in the same relationship to each other though. That makes me think that the firearm is making them.

iH8DemLibz · Nov 22, 2016

Those anomalies could have made by a Henway.

SKIP · Nov 22, 2016

iH8DemLibz said:
Those anomalies could have made by a Henway.

What is a Henway?
About 5 pounds.

Alphabrew · Nov 22, 2016

iH8DemLibz said:
Those anomalies could have made by a Henway.

Obviously not. Clearly a Chinese Urn.

StickShaker · Nov 22, 2016

yellowfin said:
I'm thinking either an Ingram or a Grease Gun.

I briefly looked at drawings for these after you posted but didn't see anything that would make the dimple. Could have missed it though as they were not very clear. I think you're on the right track.

Blacksmith101 · Nov 22, 2016

Alphabrew said:
Obviously not. Clearly a Chinese Urn.

About 8 ¥

303_enfield · Nov 30, 2016

That's USGI ammo. The dimple is from the manufacture. See the red sealant on the primer? That equals fresh, not reloads, 1953 Winchester .45ACP.

Somebody got into Dad's stash!

StickShaker · Dec 1, 2016

303_enfield said:
That's USGI ammo. The dimple is from the manufacture. See the red sealant on the primer? That equals fresh, not reloads, 1953 Winchester .45ACP.

Somebody got into Dad's stash!

Yeah, I kinda figured that with the crimped primers and all. I have a lifetime supply of it too, all with the same headstamp and date, I don't know how to act. Don't tell the Hooligans that I found it at their range.

I would like to agree with you but there are a few things that don't add up. Do you see the extractor mark at around 9:30? The dimple is always 180 degrees in relation to the extractor mark. That would mean thousands and thousands of rounds would have to be loaded into the gun with the dimple purposely placed in the same relationship to the extractor.

The dimple also has various depth to it. From the deepest as shown in the pic to so light that it's barely visible. They are all close to the serrated crimp ring however. Either right on it or a little above and below the ring.

Is there such a thing as belt fed .45? I suppose the manufacture could have staked the ammo after it was in the belt and that would solve the orientation mystery. :shrug:

TinCuda · Dec 1, 2016

Older 1911s were known to dimple the side of the case. After the ejection port was lowered and flared, for reliability, this stopped happening.

.,

StickShaker · Dec 1, 2016

TinCuda said:
Older 1911s were know to dimple the side of the case. After the ejection port was lowered and flared, for reliability, this stopped happening.

.,

Thanks for posting that. Most in this thread also think 1911 but I'm wondering why a perfect round dimple vs. random shaped marks which I have seen on some other brass that I have.

What gun shot this case?

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