Little help with ID and value

Onwrd Farm · May 12, 2014

Found this online and was hoping to get a little help with ID and value. Thanks in advance.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/bruneronwrd/20140301_122806_zpsa2f7b2d5.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/bruneronwrd/20140301_122743_zps5e5fca58.jpg

Alphabrew · May 12, 2014

Ortgies pocket pistol. German, 7.65mm (i.e. .32acp basically). Value is prolly $175-$250 or so. Let me know if you want to shoot mine.

Onwrd Farm · May 12, 2014

Thank ya Sir. Going back and forth right now with the seller to see if we can meet up so I can get a better look.
Do you like yours as a shooter?

Threeband · May 12, 2014

Don't they have a reputation for being very accurate, but unsafe if dropped?

Onwrd Farm · May 12, 2014

From Wiki:
The Ortgies was a well-balanced, sturdy weapon that found considerable favor in competitive shooting. In 1921, prize winners at some 70% of principal shooting competitions had chosen Ortgies 7.65 mm pistols, and the winner of the German championship on September 26, 1921, at Halensee, Germany, took the prize firing an Ortgies.[1] At the other end of the user spectrum, outlaw John Dillinger carried an Ortgies,[4] and several hundred Ortgies pistols saw service with Finnish prison authorities through the World War II period.[5]

Havent found anything about unsafe when dropped yet.

reverendbeer · May 12, 2014

Threeband said:
Don't they have a reputation for being very accurate, but unsafe if dropped?

ANY weapon is unsafe when dropped...it's propensity to go off when dropped is irrelevant. If you've dropped a gun that has a round in the chamber with the hammer on it, bad things are likely to happen regardless of the manufacturer.

Sorry...this is a pet peeve stemming from people I know that consider every gun EVER a candidate for concealed carry.

"Dude! Ortiges! Nice, eh?"
"Oh, shit no. you drop it and it might go off! Stay away!"
"Wat? I just wanted it to..."
"NO WAY!!! You get in a firefight, that could be your biggest liability!"
"What? Dropping the pistol I'm in a firefight with? Yeah, that IS a liability."
"No, man...I'm talking about killing your bros because of ND."
"Dude! I'm talking about just taking it to the range..."
"WELLLLLL...if you wanna take that chance...."
"...THE F*** IS WRONG WITH YOU??!?!???"

Alphabrew · May 12, 2014

Glocks are drop safe. Just not C&R yet...

I don't shoot my Ortgies enough to opine on it as a shooter.

Threeband · May 12, 2014

Modern pistols are drop safe. If a modern pistol is fumbled, one should just let it drop. It is dangerous to try to catch it.

I hold C&R pistols to a different standard. I would not choose one for duty.

If I had the money to burn, I would collect older .32 autos, and my collection would include an Ortgies. I would shoot it. I would not carry it. I would try not to drop it.

somd_mustangs · May 12, 2014

Don't forget the holster may have some decent value/desirability too.

Onwrd Farm · May 12, 2014

somd_mustangs said:
Don't forget the holster may have some decent value/desirability too.

I don't think the one I'm looking at has a holster with it. I'll have to ask.

somd_mustangs · May 12, 2014

Sorry, I was looking at Alphabrew's pic

But definitely ask; also never hurts to ask for capture papers or any docs associated with it.
People go crazy over that stuff.

Mark75H · May 12, 2014

They also came in .380. .380's command a slight premium in price.

A smaller frame .25 was also made. Except as a space holder in a collection, the .25's don't do much compared to the Colt, FN & Browning vest pockets that are smaller, more accurate and easier to shoot.

Abulg1972 · May 13, 2014

These pistols were made by a ship builder during a time of peace. When Germany started re-arming, Ortgies stopped making them. They were chambered in .25 ACP, .32 ACP and .380 ACP. I think you'd be very hard pressed to pick one up for less than $200 unless the condition is not great. I'd say you''re looking at $250 to $325. Your picture isn't great so it's hard to get an idea of condition, but it looks like it has some wear and there's a mark/ding on the right grip. Without knowing more about the one you're looking at, it's hard to say but I probably wouldn't pay more than $275.

It is claimed that they have the fewest parts of any semi-auto, and because they were produced in Germany by a ship builder, some think that they are pretty undervalued right now. This was not a military pistol. A few issues have been reported. The arms of the sear are brittle and susceptible to failure. IF that happens, the pistol will discharge. The interrupter is a small disk and some have reported it wearing down and going full auto.

They are pretty pistols. I personally like them a lot. The sights are terrible, but much better than the sights on its competition pocket/vest pistols.

The one pictured below was being offered for $340. It's nice, but not $340 nice.

Abulg1972 · Jun 23, 2014

I was back at my LGS and the Ortgies was still there and still listed for $340. I really like it. I asked if he would come down and he said $20. I got home and decided to see if anyone was offering one on GB. Sure 'nuff, there were several but most really high and not in great condition. I took a shot and bought this one tonight. We'll see. I think I did pretty well on the price - I spend that much at the grocery store every week so not much to lose. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=422933670.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Alphabrew · Jun 23, 2014

Abulg1972 said:
I was back at my LGS and the Ortgies was still there and still listed for $340. I really like it. I asked if he would come down and he said $20. I got home and decided to see if anyone was offering one on GB. Sure 'nuff, there were several but most really high and not in great condition. I took a shot and bought this one tonight. We'll see. I think I did pretty well on the price - I spend that much at the grocery store every week so not much to lose. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=422933670.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You did well :thumbsup:

Abulg1972 · Jun 23, 2014

Alphabrew said:
You did well

I'm scratching my head looking at what people want for these. Either they way overpaid and aren't willing to part with it for less that they paid or are just delusional.

somd_mustangs · Jun 23, 2014

Pocket pistols in general seem to be on the rise so to speak. They made tons more PP's and PPK's and look where they're at now. Prices on Colts, Astra 300 & 600 also up. They only made these Ortgies for a very short time, clean well-made pistol. I think it's more they've been under-valued and now catching up. As mentioned before, have to be cognizant of what model Ortgie - the .25 not in high demand, the .380 is highest.

Alphabrew · Jun 23, 2014

somd_mustangs said:
Don't forget the holster may have some decent value/desirability too.

I'll have to check into that. The holster is nazi marked with the eagle. The man my dad got the pistol from said it was a bring back from Anzio Beach head, but the pistol says "Germany" on it in English. He had a somewhat specific story about his father taking it off an officer. I suspect he did have a bring back pistol but got it mixed up with this Ortgies, and my dad got the bring back's holster. My dad got it in the early 1990s.

Machodoc · Jun 23, 2014

reverendbeer said:
ANY weapon is unsafe when dropped...it's propensity to go off when dropped is irrelevant. If you've dropped a gun that has a round in the chamber with the hammer on it, bad things are likely to happen regardless of the manufacturer.

Sorry...this is a pet peeve stemming from people I know that consider every gun EVER a candidate for concealed carry.

"Dude! Ortiges! Nice, eh?"
"Oh, shit no. you drop it and it might go off! Stay away!"
"Wat? I just wanted it to..."
"NO WAY!!! You get in a firefight, that could be your biggest liability!"
"What? Dropping the pistol I'm in a firefight with? Yeah, that IS a liability."
"No, man...I'm talking about killing your bros because of ND."
"Dude! I'm talking about just taking it to the range..."
"WELLLLLL...if you wanna take that chance...."
"...THE F*** IS WRONG WITH YOU??!?!???"

Hey! I watched hundreds of westerns in the '50s and '60s ... where someone would "get the drop on" someone else (never could figure out how that term came to be). Anyhow, after they got the drop on the other guy, they'd make them drop their guns, and NEVER did one go off accidentally.

Just as today, where it must be true if it's on the interwebs, if it was on TV back then, it must have been true! After all, would Roy, Gene, Hoppy, Bat, Palladin, and the rest have LIED to us?!?!

(P.S. ... if you are taking this seriously, let me talk to you about a great investment I have to offer.)

mgbill · Jun 23, 2014

Mark75H said:
They also came in .380. .380's command a slight premium in price.

A smaller frame .25 was also made. Except as a space holder in a collection, the .25's don't do much compared to the Colt, FN & Browning vest pockets that are smaller, more accurate and easier to shoot.

Not to be argumentative, but in my experience the .380 is MUCH harder to find and the price reflects this rarity. I do agree with the assessment of the .25ACP - it completes the basic collection of this interesting little pistol. I say "basic" because there were a number of versions of this pistol, most often involving different addresses on the frame.

Little help with ID and value

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