H&K p30 9mm recoil

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Nick Zac beat me to it. A 3in Kframe would be perfect , or an SP101 if tiny hands. Zero issues about slide racking on revolvers.

    If you insist on bottom feeders , the recoil per se for any full size-ish 9mm rounds off to modest. The bigger issues will be racking the slide , and holding it up.

    But If pull the slide back is that much of an issue , I'd also be concerned about Limp Wristing.
     

    07g35xnick

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2012
    288
    Mount airy md
    Nick Zac beat me to it. A 3in Kframe would be perfect , or an SP101 if tiny hands. Zero issues about slide racking on revolvers.

    If you insist on bottom feeders , the recoil per se for any full size-ish 9mm rounds off to modest. The bigger issues will be racking the slide , and holding it up.

    But If pull the slide back is that much of an issue , I'd also be concerned about Limp Wristing.

    She has tried my Smith mod 66 and can't pull the trigger so this is yet another issue she has. I've shot a few sp101 Rugers and know from that there is no way she could pull the trigger on one, they feel like almost double the trigger weight.

    I see the p30 weighs a little more the the fnp9 as well so that's a plus.
     

    07g35xnick

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2012
    288
    Mount airy md
    Herself has a P30 9mm. I shoot it regularly.

    My personal favorite is my P229 9mm.

    I have not shot the FN, but ...

    She liked the grip, and also liked it because she could rack the slide. She got this before I got my P229.

    I think you will find the recoil pressure against the hand will be somewhat comparable, and not at all objectionable, in part because of the shape of the grip compared to some.

    However, the P30 has a poly frame and is a bit lighter. Though it has a higher bore axis, my observation is it has perhaps a slightly higher degree of muzzle flip, because all of the weight is in the slide.

    Both are fairly soft shooters. I am splitting hairs.

    I think the two are very comparable on racking ease.

    The P229 may feel easier than the P226 because of its shorter length. It is as close to identical in size to the P30 as you can get, just slightly heavier due to the metal frame.

    If you look at a P229, be sure to check a model with the E2 grip, which she will prefer over the older grip style.

    We looked at sigs new 228-229 style handgun and while it was a nice size she's a lefty and couldn't rack the slide lol. This is turning into a mess
     

    07g35xnick

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2012
    288
    Mount airy md
    If she likes the P30, you may want to consider the Walther PPQ. Similar to the P30, but less expensive and has a better trigger.

    Note they offer a navy model with an extended barrel, which is slightly heavier than the standard model. (slightly better recoil mitigation)
    I will check out Walther again thanks
    The P30 is a great gun, but I do not think it is a good option in this particular case.

    H&K's recoil reduction system reduces recoil some...the P30 is more dramatic than the USP in terms of reduction. It's improved ergos certainly help as well and it is arguably the most comfortable poly gun on the market. It is without doubt one of the most structurally sound, and like the USP, it is incredibly reliable, capable of running reliably in extremes, and designed for 6-figure round counts with virtually zero additional maintenance on top of standard minor/major service plus a few simple spring swaps.

    It is a great gun, but worth noting that depending on the springs/trigger, you may not have a lot of luck cycling 115gr ammo...IIRC it is the heavier LEMs which increase the chance that the gun will not fire. How the gun is held often affects if/how much of an issue this is, and the ammo itself can have an affect too as some value 115gr ball ammo is pretty weak.




    With that said, the reason I noted I do not personally think this is the best option is because the gun is a semiautomatic. If one has serious issues with muscle mass, wrist, and/or grip, I would argue that a revolver is, by far, the best choice.

    Any semiautomatic is going to be prone to a malfunction if it is not held in a certain fashion...if the wrist/arm moves with the recoil, the wrist movement itself more or less absorbs some of the backwards energy generated from the fired round that is required to push the slide back, eject the spent casing, and then chamber a new round from the magazine...if the wrist offsets too much of this energy, the slide will not open wide enough to completely eject the spent casing, and the spent casing will become lodged in the ejection port, preventing the gun from being able to fire. Once this occurs, clearing it requires a drill that must be done quickly (and sometimes very forcefully with the ability to grasp, pry, and forcefully rack)...otherwise, the gun is 100% useless at that point. If grip strength/wrist strength is an issue, it sounds like this is a very real possibility. A wheel gun does not have this issue, and I would argue that a 4 inch revolver shooting .38 is easier to manage and has dramatically less recoil than even a light-shooting 9mm. A Smith Model 64 or 10 in .38 special presents a nice medium frame that is not as heavy as most 4 inch guns, but is heavy enough to offset a major portion of the recoil...a good Hogue grip with finger grooves will give this fantastic grip retention. The intended usage is the biggest thing as to if this is something of greater or lesser importance. If the firearm is to be used for self-defense, this is arguably more important than if it is just a range plinker.

    My 2 ¢...

    View attachment 112729

    View attachment 112730

    nifty guns. Bore axis is high, and you got to learn the DA/SA trigger system. I'd say have her actually go rent some to see what she likes to shoot the best.

    Problems pulling back the slide is a software issue. Have her get the mindset that she's not pulling the slide back, she's just holding on to the slide as she's pushing the frame forward. Have her hold the gun straight out with a high grip on the tang, turn it sideways(birdman style), grab on to the rear of the slide(clearing fingers of the ejection port), and push the frame forward. With straight arms, this technique uses large muscles of the chest and back instead of the puny ones in the arms and shoulders. It also keeps the gun pointed downrange for new shooters. That other technique isn't the best, as you're not pushing so much as doing a chest fly and relying largely on forearm muscles in your support hand.

    pictoral guide to racking a slide with weak grip/arms

    with this method, you use chest and back muscles to push the frame. You use bone structure in your arm to support the load on your arms, and the stress goes directly back in to your wrist instead of torquing it like the other method, relying on brachioradialis strength.
    So she was able to rack the slide to some degree on my xd40 with the out in front technique . For some reason she racks it's with ease on my .357sig p2000.
    I had her working the trigger again on my Smith 66 to see how she does but it's still very tough and not controlled .
     

    ShoreShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 27, 2013
    1,042
    The P30 is a great gun, but I do not think it is a good option in this particular case.

    H&K's recoil reduction system reduces recoil some...the P30 is more dramatic than the USP in terms of reduction. It's improved ergos certainly help as well and it is arguably the most comfortable poly gun on the market. It is without doubt one of the most structurally sound, and like the USP, it is incredibly reliable, capable of running reliably in extremes, and designed for 6-figure round counts with virtually zero additional maintenance on top of standard minor/major service plus a few simple spring swaps.

    It is a great gun, but worth noting that depending on the springs/trigger, you may not have a lot of luck cycling 115gr ammo...IIRC it is the heavier LEMs which increase the chance that the gun will not fire. How the gun is held often affects if/how much of an issue this is, and the ammo itself can have an affect too as some value 115gr ball ammo is pretty weak.




    With that said, the reason I noted I do not personally think this is the best option is because the gun is a semiautomatic. If one has serious issues with muscle mass, wrist, and/or grip, I would argue that a revolver is, by far, the best choice.

    Any semiautomatic is going to be prone to a malfunction if it is not held in a certain fashion...if the wrist/arm moves with the recoil, the wrist movement itself more or less absorbs some of the backwards energy generated from the fired round that is required to push the slide back, eject the spent casing, and then chamber a new round from the magazine...if the wrist offsets too much of this energy, the slide will not open wide enough to completely eject the spent casing, and the spent casing will become lodged in the ejection port, preventing the gun from being able to fire. Once this occurs, clearing it requires a drill that must be done quickly (and sometimes very forcefully with the ability to grasp, pry, and forcefully rack)...otherwise, the gun is 100% useless at that point. If grip strength/wrist strength is an issue, it sounds like this is a very real possibility. A wheel gun does not have this issue, and I would argue that a 4 inch revolver shooting .38 is easier to manage and has dramatically less recoil than even a light-shooting 9mm. A Smith Model 64 or 10 in .38 special presents a nice medium frame that is not as heavy as most 4 inch guns, but is heavy enough to offset a major portion of the recoil...a good Hogue grip with finger grooves will give this fantastic grip retention. The intended usage is the biggest thing as to if this is something of greater or lesser importance. If the firearm is to be used for self-defense, this is arguably more important than if it is just a range plinker.

    My 2 ¢...



    Herself's P30 standard diet is 115 grain ball ammo for the range. Cheap stuff. Never a problem with anything it has been fed.

    We did a limp-wrist test of the P30 when it was new. Yes, if you really try to allow as weak a hold as you can manage without actually dropping the pistol, you can make it FTE. But there has never been a problem with this in a real sense, and she holds it in a pretty weak fashion. It did require about 200 rounds to break in, and there were just a few FTE's in the early few mags of shooting when the springs were tight, but nothing since.
     

    ShoreShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 27, 2013
    1,042
    We looked at sigs new 228-229 style handgun and while it was a nice size she's a lefty and couldn't rack the slide lol. This is turning into a mess



    No question the P30 is a good choice for a lefty. Much better than a Sig in that regard.
     

    photoracer

    Competition Shooter
    Oct 22, 2010
    3,318
    West Virginia
    No question the P30 is a good choice for a lefty. Much better than a Sig in that regard.
    I agree. I used to have both a P229 and and a USP-Compact. I still have the HK. It was in 357 Sig caliber, a serious recoiling pistol. I bought a 9mm barrel for it and now it shoots like baby. And it cycles all weight 9mm fine using the .357/40 mags. 9mm is for range time and .357 Sig is for carry. Hk has the best grip I have used including 1911/2011.
     

    07g35xnick

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2012
    288
    Mount airy md
    I agree. I used to have both a P229 and and a USP-Compact. I still have the HK. It was in 357 Sig caliber, a serious recoiling pistol. I bought a 9mm barrel for it and now it shoots like baby. And it cycles all weight 9mm fine using the .357/40 mags. 9mm is for range time and .357 Sig is for carry. Hk has the best grip I have used including 1911/2011.

    How does that USP run with a 9mm barrel? My p2000 is .357sig and I was thinking about this conversion but it's not recomended
     

    NickZac

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2007
    3,412
    Baltimore, MD
    I will check out Walther again thanks



    So she was able to rack the slide to some degree on my xd40 with the out in front technique . For some reason she racks it's with ease on my .357sig p2000.
    I had her working the trigger again on my Smith 66 to see how she does but it's still very tough and not controlled .

    The P2k has great ergos which helps with racking the slide...some people add serrations to the slides to help improve the grip retention, which may also be of interest. Certain coatings may also add some leverage on the grip

    A gunsmith (like Chad who is on this forum) would know off-hand exactly which revolvers have the lightest DA pulls and what can be done to make them lighter. He would also be a good source to weigh in on the easiest firearms to function given he works with them on a daily basis on a very detailed level.

    While it's just my personal opinion, I do think when a semiautomatic is being used for defense, the ability to perform malfunction drills is equally important as being able to rack the slide/perform standard loading & unloading. Such drills are more involved than standard load/unload procedures. If a semiautomatic malfunctions, the firearm is useless until the correct malfunction drill is executed correctly, which requires frequent practice as some are a little difficult. In a self-defense situation, the probability of a malfunction is arguably higher than on the range, and doing the drill will be much more difficult than in a closed-environment like a range...and it will usually come down to training to determine if/how fast the drill can be completed (and obviously, the faster it can be done the better.)

    I often practice select malfunction drills (using inert Snap Caps) on my USPs. As I have a chronic disease which affects muscle strength, and so frequently performing practice drills with inert rounds helps me not only build skill, but also build & keep the muscles needed to perform such tasks capable of doing so.

    This shows the common drills and what is involved with clearing them...










    Herself's P30 standard diet is 115 grain ball ammo for the range. Cheap stuff. Never a problem with anything it has been fed.

    We did a limp-wrist test of the P30 when it was new. Yes, if you really try to allow as weak a hold as you can manage without actually dropping the pistol, you can make it FTE. But there has never been a problem with this in a real sense, and she holds it in a pretty weak fashion. It did require about 200 rounds to break in, and there were just a few FTE's in the early few mags of shooting when the springs were tight, but nothing since.

    I am guessing you probably have either V0/V3 with standard SA/DA pulls or a 4.5lb V2 LEM?

    I was told that weaker 115gr is more of an issue when the trigger pull is heavier and on 'L' models, or if a few certain springs were the heavier versions, and that this is more of an issue with a brand new gun. I suppose the reason is partly for longevity and handling things like violent +p+ given the gun can do 100k without even needing any of the main springs replaced, which is a feat few firearms can do.

    Some of the 115gr ball ammo is just unusually weak...I am not sure exactly why ammo makers do it, but it seems it results in some great guns periodically not cycling perfectly. Most of the ammo I shoot is 147gr as it's the weight I like most and use for SD. Most of the 115 I shoot is S&B which is hot stuff, but I've not had issues with any of the normal 115 ball in my USPs or USP-C. With that said, I know a few people who had some issues with weak 115 when the guns were brand new, but not after initial usage.
     

    07g35xnick

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2012
    288
    Mount airy md
    The P2k has great ergos which helps with racking the slide...some people add serrations to the slides to help improve the grip retention, which may also be of interest. Certain coatings may also add some leverage on the grip

    A gunsmith (like Chad who is on this forum) would know off-hand exactly which revolvers have the lightest DA pulls and what can be done to make them lighter. He would also be a good source to weigh in on the easiest firearms to function given he works with them on a daily basis on a very detailed level.

    While it's just my personal opinion, I do think when a semiautomatic is being used for defense, the ability to perform malfunction drills is equally important as being able to rack the slide/perform standard loading & unloading. Such drills are more involved than standard load/unload procedures. If a semiautomatic malfunctions, the firearm is useless until the correct malfunction drill is executed correctly, which requires frequent practice as some are a little difficult. In a self-defense situation, the probability of a malfunction is arguably higher than on the range, and doing the drill will be much more difficult than in a closed-environment like a range...and it will usually come down to training to determine if/how fast the drill can be completed (and obviously, the faster it can be done the better.)

    I often practice select malfunction drills (using inert Snap Caps) on my USPs. As I have a chronic disease which affects muscle strength, and so frequently performing practice drills with inert rounds helps me not only build skill, but also build & keep the muscles needed to perform such tasks capable of doing so.

    This shows the common drills and what is involved with clearing them...












    I am guessing you probably have either V0/V3 with standard SA/DA pulls or a 4.5lb V2 LEM?

    I was told that weaker 115gr is more of an issue when the trigger pull is heavier and on 'L' models, or if a few certain springs were the heavier versions, and that this is more of an issue with a brand new gun. I suppose the reason is partly for longevity and handling things like violent +p+ given the gun can do 100k without even needing any of the main springs replaced, which is a feat few firearms can do.

    Some of the 115gr ball ammo is just unusually weak...I am not sure exactly why ammo makers do it, but it seems it results in some great guns periodically not cycling perfectly. Most of the ammo I shoot is 147gr as it's the weight I like most and use for SD. Most of the 115 I shoot is S&B which is hot stuff, but I've not had issues with any of the normal 115 ball in my USPs or USP-C. With that said, I know a few people who had some issues with weak 115 when the guns were brand new, but not after initial usage.


    I would be interested to know which revolvers had that. I agree with you. 100% that training for malfunctions is important, lucky for me my brother is a federal firearms instructor. My brother has already planned to train her for high stress situations. He also said he recommends a revolver due to fine motor skills leaving the room at time of panic. This gun purchase would not be for self defense but for target and learning semi autos . Another revolver is in the future. I have some snap caps so I will do the same with her when she's ready. Thanks for the info! My p2000 has the LEM trigger
     

    87Theworld

    Active Member
    Nov 2, 2011
    211
    Howard County
    If you haven't yet you can try out the m&p compact, ruger 9, or a compact 1911 in 9mm. With the h&ks reducing the Lem to V1 versions should make it a lighter trigger. With the 1911 you can also reduce the recoil springs and trigger to even lower levels.

    Is her loss of strength only temporary. Will she get some of it back. If it's not permanent just let her recover some before making the decision. I'm not a fan but I see a lot of guns in 380 that might also work.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    If you haven't yet you can try out the m&p compact, ruger 9, or a compact 1911 in 9mm. With the h&ks reducing the Lem to V1 versions should make it a lighter trigger. With the 1911 you can also reduce the recoil springs and trigger to even lower levels.

    Is her loss of strength only temporary. Will she get some of it back. If it's not permanent just let her recover some before making the decision. I'm not a fan but I see a lot of guns in 380 that might also work.

    No reason to get a compact if you're not carrying it. For hd, just get a full size. Compacts don't have a smaller grip, just shorter. They have less capacity, shorter barrels(less velocity), a shorter sight radius(less precise aiming), snappier recoil, and heavier recoil springs since the slide is lighter. You get more capacity, better aiming, more velocity, more grip to control, easier slide to rack, and less recoil in the full sized guns.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    Why not get a friendly neighborhood handloader to crank out some soft 9x19 loads for you? Might have to get a lighter recoil spring for reliable operation but that would also help with the slide racking problem. A 115 gr going 900 fps would be very mild.

    The softest recoiling normally sized/weighted 9x19 that I've shot is the STI GP6 now imported by Century as the K100. I have shot and own a rather wide and eccletic selection of 9x19 pistols.
     

    87Theworld

    Active Member
    Nov 2, 2011
    211
    Howard County
    The way I was reading it was that she had a hard time actually holding up full size steel guns. Most compacts aren't really that much smaller than their full size guns. The grips are even able to be extended to full size with some long grip extensions. Less ammo also equates to a little less weight your holding up.

    I do agree on the full size guns being a better HD and their other benefits.
     

    07g35xnick

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2012
    288
    Mount airy md
    Why not get a friendly neighborhood handloader to crank out some soft 9x19 loads for you? Might have to get a lighter recoil spring for reliable operation but that would also help with the slide racking problem. A 115 gr going 900 fps would be very mild.

    The softest recoiling normally sized/weighted 9x19 that I've shot is the STI GP6 now imported by Century as the K100. I have shot and own a rather wide and eccletic selection of 9x19 pistols.
    I'll check out the k100. I'd like to stay away from changing springs due to a drop in reliability .
    The way I was reading it was that she had a hard time actually holding up full size steel guns. Most compacts aren't really that much smaller than their full size guns. The grips are even able to be extended to full size with some long grip extensions. Less ammo also equates to a little less weight your holding up.

    I do agree on the full size guns being a better HD and their other benefits.
    you are correct, she has a hard time holding up an all steel gun.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    I find that 90% of the people that have a hard time shooting, "because the gun is too heavy" have no problem grabbing a gallon of milk from the fridge and pouring themselves a glass. For a lot of people it seems to be a software issue.


    I have a hard time imagining this 9 year old girl is stronger than many adults. With lots of practice, they learn how to use their grip strength to shoot. For people with legitimate grip strength issues for medical reasons, that new glock 42 sure sounds like a good option. It's light, shoots the .380 and has a very light recoil spring. There are some pretty decent defensive loads available for the .380 now that put it as a good option for those that absolutely can't handle a full size gun.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    There's also a perception thing to the recoil. Make sure the ear plugs are being insterted correctly, and also double up on muffs and ear plugs. I also don't recommend taking new shooters to an indoor range. It's often just too bloody loud. Outdoor ranges are much more enjoyable IMO.
     

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