Wuestenbergs-Michigan CPLer draws at Chipotle

gamer_jim · Jul 12, 2020

I thought there was another thread on this but I couldn't find it.

Backstory: Jillian Wuestenberg with a MI CPL (Concealed Pistol License) bumped into someone at Chipotle. Woman and her mom start yelling at JW in the parking lot and prevents them from leaving. JW draws on woman and her mom. JW was charged with "felony assault".

Original video here:

John Correia, of Active Self Protection, does an interview with the Wuestenbergs and their attorneys.

It seems they are going with the narrative that they felt threatened and trapped. I though this might be good discussion.

Mods please delete or merge if dupe thread. I did a search and couldn't find anything related to michigan or chipotle on this story.

Mark75H · Jul 12, 2020

Proportionality

Pale Ryder · Jul 12, 2020

I think a can of OC spray would of been a better choice at least, first.

I can see how thuggish daughters response escalated this. “Excuse you” from juveniles mouth does not set the tone for friendly exchange. Hopefully she’ll reflect on how close she came to having her little brains splattered all over the ground.

Threeband · Jul 12, 2020

Jillian Wuestenberg is pregnant, by the way.

outrider58 · Jul 12, 2020

"...it was a white woman and a white man. They so racist!..."

Okay...got it...

1911msc · Jul 12, 2020

The black teen should get a stern rebuke from her father. And the white couple should have OC hanging from lanyard if they insist on disrespecting negros.

1911msc · Jul 12, 2020

I hope the first part of my last comment did not appear racist?

whistlersmother · Jul 12, 2020

1911msc said:
The black teen should get a stern rebuke from her father. And the white couple should have OC hanging from lanyard if they insist on disrespecting negros.

Huh? "OC hanging from lanyard"? How do I get Ocean City hanging from a lanyard? Do you mean a souvenir hanging from the mirror? If so, how do I avoid the "noose" complaint? Maybe whales on crack can give some guidance....

Name Taken · Jul 12, 2020

Not really sure there was a reason to leave the vehicle and engage the person. However it doesn't appear the other party was scared for their safety as they stood there and made no attempts to get out of the line of barrel from the firearm.

Regardless...not sure why any attorney would allow their clients to do an interview prior to the trial.

gamer_jim · Jul 12, 2020

Name Taken said:
Not really sure there was a reason to leave the vehicle and engage the person. However it doesn't appear the other party was scared for their safety as they stood there and made no attempts to get out of the line of barrel from the firearm.

Regardless...not sure why any attorney would allow their clients to do an interview prior to the trial.

Did you watch the second video?

The mom and daughter were banging on the van and preventing them from leaving. They were also threatening violence against the accused.

The way the van was parked there wasn't a way for them to leave.

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Name Taken · Jul 13, 2020

gamer_jim said:
Did you watch the second video?

The mom and daughter were banging on the van and preventing them from leaving. They were also threatening violence against the accused.

The way the van was parked there wasn't a way for them to leave.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Even still....I'm not sure in this situation that blocking the van would equal justified lethal force. Sit in the van armed unless the situation increases.

The video I saw didn't equate to a lethal force situation to me. And apparently the police either. Wonder if the States Attorney and Judge/Jury will agree.

Inigoes · Jul 13, 2020

gamer_jim said:
Did you watch the second video?

The mom and daughter were banging on the van and preventing them from leaving. They were also threatening violence against the accused.

The way the van was parked there wasn't a way for them to leave.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

flesh and bone tends to move when a 1 ton vehicle is about to run over them...

gamer_jim · Jul 13, 2020

Inigoes said:
flesh and bone tends to move when a 1 ton vehicle is about to run over them...

Did you watch the video?

They explained in the second video that their van was equipped with a safety feature to disable rear motion if someone is detected by the computer to be behind the vehicle.

gamer_jim · Jul 13, 2020

Name Taken said:
Even still....I'm not sure in this situation that blocking the van would equal justified lethal force. Sit in the van armed unless the situation increases.

The video I saw didn't equate to a lethal force situation to me. And apparently the police either. Wonder if the States Attorney and Judge/Jury will agree.

Did you watch the video?

The husband is a disabled Iraq vet. He explained that they don't sit in a vehicle when they feel threatened.

In other BLM riots over the past week they were smashing windows of vehicles.

Threeband · Jul 13, 2020

gamer_jim said:
Did you watch the video?

The husband is a disabled Iraq vet. He explained that they don't sit in a vehicle when they feel threatened.

In other BLM riots over the past week they were smashing windows of vehicles.

At least one person was shot in her vehicle. Others have been struck. There has been talk of people being dragged out and beaten, but I'm not sure if that has actually happened yet, at least since Reginald Denny. A woman in Indianapolis was shot and killed for saying "All Lives Matter."

I would not want one of those smarty-pants vehicles that automatically brakes to avoid a collision. I want to retain the option of ramming.

Name Taken · Jul 13, 2020

gamer_jim said:
Did you watch the video?

The husband is a disabled Iraq vet. He explained that they don't sit in a vehicle when they feel threatened.

In other BLM riots over the past week they were smashing windows of vehicles.

Bro, your hung up on folks watching a hour long interview. I hit it at 2X and got about 20 minutes in. That's all I could take.

I watched what happened. With my knowledge of MD law I don't think it would be a justified use of force. If you think it is great.

Me watching the rest of the video isn't going to change my thoughts on the matter. In that situation, even with them banging on the car, without more, I don't see lethal force being reasonable.

You had a younger girl and an old heavy set woman yelling and acting stupid. I didn't see any real threat there myself.

But no...I didn't watch the full video. Even at 2X speed it was dreadful to watch.

Matlack · Jul 13, 2020

Name Taken said:
Bro, your hung up on folks watching a hour long interview. I hit it at 2X and got about 20 minutes in. That's all I could take.

I watched what happened. With my knowledge of MD law I don't think it would be a justified use of force. If you think it is great.

Me watching the rest of the video isn't going to change my thoughts on the matter. In that situation, even with them banging on the car, without more, I don't see lethal force being reasonable.

You had a younger girl and an old heavy set woman yelling and acting stupid. I didn't see any real threat there myself.

But no...I didn't watch the full video. Even at 2X speed it was dreadful to watch.

Have you never been involved in an altercation where it quickly escalates over nothing? These two women are threatening a pregnant woman and a disabled man. Im sure you think that it was nothing, but they kept chasing the victims and escalating the situation. Once they began to physically attack the vehicle they were in and their ability to leave has been hindered then equal force is allowed. This also wasnt in MD, it was MI. They are lucky they were allowed to conceal carry there. In MD you would be in the same situation without the same protection.

I have gone over similar situations in my head. What would I do if people began attacking my vehicle while my children and wife are in the car? How can I escape this situation? What happens if I have been rendered unable to protect them? This became a real concern while we were in Baltimore and a group of squeegee thugs began hitting/kicking my car and pulling on the handles after I told them no. In that instance I was able to leave, though I was yelled at by them and one threw something at us as we made our escape. I was lucky to be the first vehicle at the light. My car still has scratches and dents from it. It was a few months old at the time.

Name Taken · Jul 14, 2020

Matlack said:
Have you never been involved in an altercation where it quickly escalates over nothing? These two women are threatening a pregnant woman and a disabled man. Im sure you think that it was nothing, but they kept chasing the victims and escalating the situation. Once they began to physically attack the vehicle they were in and their ability to leave has been hindered then equal force is allowed. This also wasnt in MD, it was MI. They are lucky they were allowed to conceal carry there. In MD you would be in the same situation without the same protection.

I have gone over similar situations in my head. What would I do if people began attacking my vehicle while my children and wife are in the car? How can I escape this situation? What happens if I have been rendered unable to protect them? This became a real concern while we were in Baltimore and a group of squeegee thugs began hitting/kicking my car and pulling on the handles after I told them no. In that instance I was able to leave, though I was yelled at by them and one threw something at us as we made our escape. I was lucky to be the first vehicle at the light. My car still has scratches and dents from it. It was a few months old at the time.

They were so scared they got out to engage the folks who they were scared of. Doesn't work in my mind.

esqappellate · Jul 14, 2020

Name Taken said:
They were so scared they got out to engage the folks who they were scared of. Doesn't work in my mind.

The rule is don't draw unless it would be justified to fire it. Would a reasonable person believe that he (or she) is at an imminent risk of severe bodily harm or death? Plus, of course, you can't be the aggressor or provoke the assault (or engage in a mutual verbal or actual combat). This test may require a personality transplant for some.

Matlack · Jul 14, 2020

Name Taken said:
They were so scared they got out to engage the folks who they were scared of. Doesn't work in my mind.

their vehicle was stopped and being attacked. They no longer had the ability to retreat.

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