How to DIY NFA Trust

Inigoes · May 11, 2011

I forgot to mention...

Once your trust is initially approved, and you go through the cycle for the first time. You will notice how easy the process is.

Stamp collecting (collecting tax stamps for NFA items), can be more expensive than having a C&R (03 FFL). The only saving grace is the wait times

Sev · May 11, 2011

how many trustees do you have to have on a living trust?
the template is a good start for me, thanks

Inigoes · May 11, 2011

Sev said:
how many trustees do you have to have on a living trust?
the template is a good start for me, thanks

IANAL, from what I understand:

At a minimum 2

Primary = You
Alternate = wife, or someone you trust after you pass (aka croak)

Sev · May 11, 2011

Inigoes said:
IANAL, from what I understand:

At a minimum 2

Primary = You
Alternate = wife, or someone you trust after you pass (aka croak)

ok cool. And I'm assuming I can add people to the trust as things go along? (IE (if) i get married at some point)

Inigoes · May 11, 2011

Sev said:
ok cool. And I'm assuming I can add people to the trust as things go along? (IE (if) i get married at some point)

Yep, just like writing a new will.

Each time you rewrite your trust, the new one will need to be notarized.

Now, if you decide to sale an item in the trust, you will need to adjust the inventory accordingly.

boatbod · May 11, 2011

Sev said:
ok cool. And I'm assuming I can add people to the trust as things go along? (IE (if) i get married at some point)

Yes, you just restate the trust, have it notarized and off you go. No need to send a copy to the ATF unless you're applying for a new Form 1/Form 4.

Sev · May 11, 2011

boatbod said:
Yes, you just restate the trust, have it notarized and off you go. No need to send a copy to the ATF unless you're applying for a new Form 1/Form 4.

interesting....

I think my neighbor is a lawyer... Might have to take a stab at this

sgtbilco · May 11, 2011

@INIGOES, thanks you have been very helpful! I am assuming you did your own, which format did you use? A template like posted before or a will-maker like Quicken?

Inigoes · May 11, 2011

Quiken Willmaker 2009

ar15dave · May 12, 2011

Inigoes said:
Quiken Willmaker 2009

Thanks for all the input. I will give it a try on my build.

Dave

Hol3shot · May 12, 2011

Inigoes said:
Quiken Willmaker 2009

I'm assuming the software was pretty cheap. Did using an older version work alright?
I'm just curious about the changing laws and stuff.

Inigoes · May 12, 2011

Hol3shot said:
I'm assuming the software was pretty cheap. Did using an older version work alright?
I'm just curious about the changing laws and stuff.

The older version is fine.

The problem with Quicken and their updates is the loss of functionality. FWIW, I haven't seen any change in MD law pertaining to trusts, although IANAL.

Quicken 2010 removed the Living trust from the basic software bundle, and created a new product Quicken Trust maker. I believe Trust maker is available for Quicken 2011 also.

rpker · May 12, 2011

Alright, I don't want to make this anymore complicated than my brain thinks it should be but I do have a question or two.

If I create a trust, can I do so before I own any item to put in the trust (i.e. the assignment of property page has no items listed) then buy and add a suppressor into the trust?

Question number 2. Once I buy an item and add it to the assignment of property page do I then have to have a new copy of the whole thing notarized again?

Inigoes · May 12, 2011

rpker said:
Alright, I don't want to make this anymore complicated than my brain thinks it should be but I do have a question or two.

If I create a trust, can I do so before I own any item to put in the trust (i.e. the assignment of property page has no items listed) then buy and add a suppressor into the trust?

Question number 2. Once I buy an item and add it to the assignment of property page do I then have to have a new copy of the whole thing notarized again?

When you create the trust, you are supposed to fund it. It can be as easy as maintaining $1 in the trust, or you could put a cheap firearm in there (example: Mosin Nagant rifle).

When you purchase an item that goes into the trust, you add it to the trust invetory sheet(s). This does not require having the trust notarized again.

When you sale an item, or remove your place holder (example: Mosin Nagant rifle), you just remove the item from the inventory sheet(s).

The reason I'm suggesting on adding an inexpensive firearm, is because you will have to record the "Manufacturer", "Type of Firearm", "Model", "Serial Number", and "Caliber" in the trust for your NFA items anyways.

rpker · May 12, 2011

Inigoes said:
When you create the trust, you are supposed to fund it. It can be as easy as maintaining $1 in the trust, or you could put a cheap firearm in there (example: Mosin Nagant rifle).

When you purchase an item that goes into the trust, you add it to the trust invetory sheet(s). This does not require having the trust notarized again.

When you sale an item, or remove your place holder (example: Mosin Nagant rifle), you just remove the item from the inventory sheet(s).

The reason I'm suggesting on adding an inexpensive firearm, is because you will have to record the "Manufacturer", "Type of Firearm", "Model", "Serial Number", and "Caliber" in the trust for your NFA items anyways.

so "funding" the trust was where I saw somone in another thread say to add a $1 bill to the property page including the serial number. correct

I would probably add one of my pistols to the trust to begin with I just didn't know if I HAD to to create it.

Inigoes · May 12, 2011

1) Yes, adding $1 is one way to fund the trust, another is just add a firearm. The trust will be funded either way.

When I created my trust, I added all type of firearms besides NFA items. Since you can buy and sell freely, it just keeps me disciplined to keep my firearms inventory up to date.

Also the heirs will not have to pay inheritance tax on the items in the trust. Some people say do not mix titled property (homes, land, etc...) with untitled property (guns, livestock, etc...), but I did for expediancy.

Heirs in the trust, is no big deal between a husband and a wife, because the property is seen as one owner under the institution of marriage.

If you are unmarried, or leaving property to your children: they will have to pay inheritance tax on anything they receive through your will, if the property is left through the trust then no inheritance tax.

Once you start researching the difference between trusts and wills, your eyes will open on how the rich have been able to keep their money, while us little guys keep paying the man...

ar15dave · May 17, 2011

I have a copy of the one Maryland_Shooter posted. I am modifying it to meet my needs. I am not sure if I need to change [wife] and [child 1] to my wife and childs name throughout the document or simply refer to them somewhere else as wife and child 1. Just want to make sure I make all appropriate changes.

Dave

boatbod · May 17, 2011

ar15dave said:
I have a copy of the one Maryland_Shooter posted. I am modifying it to meet my needs. I am not sure if I need to change [wife] and [child 1] to my wife and childs name throughout the document or simply refer to them somewhere else as wife and child 1. Just want to make sure I make all appropriate changes.

Dave

Unless you are planning to trade in your [wife] and [child1], I recommend a global search & replace operation.

Hol3shot · May 17, 2011

Inigoes said:
1) Yes, adding $1 is one way to fund the trust, another is just add a firearm. The trust will be funded either way.

When I created my trust, I added all type of firearms besides NFA items. Since you can buy and sell freely, it just keeps me disciplined to keep my firearms inventory up to date.

Also the heirs will not have to pay inheritance tax on the items in the trust. Some people say do not mix titled property (homes, land, etc...) with untitled property (guns, livestock, etc...), but I did for expediancy.

Heirs in the trust, is no big deal between a husband and a wife, because the property is seen as one owner under the institution of marriage.

If you are unmarried, or leaving property to your children: they will have to pay inheritance tax on anything they receive through your will, if the property is left through the trust then no inheritance tax.

Once you start researching the difference between trusts and wills, your eyes will open on how the rich have been able to keep their money, while us little guys keep paying the man...

I'm GLAD you pointed that out. There are some things in life that everyone should know about - this is one of them.
The reality is that the rich stay rich because they have lawyers and handlers that take care of this stuff for them. For the economically challenged, we have to find out on our own, or end up paying the man again and again and again, until there isn't anything left to pass on...

ar15dave · May 18, 2011

boatbod said:
Unless you are planning to trade in your [wife] and [child1], I recommend a global search & replace operation.

OK no problem. Was thinking of the trade in thing but the warrenty expired so i am stuck with them. Oh well

Dave

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