Fire Call!!!! Dems attempting to ram SB741/HB888...

Adolph Oliver Bush · Feb 28, 2018

So standing here on the sidewalk updating my MDS homies, who walks by but sen. Hough! Walks out of his way to say thanks for testifying, and came over to say hi because he recognized me.

His companion, Zirkin, recognized me too and steered clear. Way clear, avoiding eye contact.

You folks who can't come to these hearings have no idea how slimey folks like zirkin are in real life.

motorcoachdoug · Feb 28, 2018

Is the meeting at 3pm going to be live?

Schipperke · Feb 28, 2018

Livingthedream said:
Hopefully they change the wording against trigger modifications.

That bridge may have been burned.

JohnnyE · Feb 28, 2018

ziptiespec said:
I tend to be a bit verbose in my writing. Here's what I sent to the committee members in the House and Senate:

Senator ______, / Delegate ______,

Please oppose Senate Bill 0707 / House Bill 0888. I implore you to prevent this well-meaning but poorly conceived and written bill from becoming law. I am a law-abiding gun owner and I live in Maryland. I closely follow the voting patterns of the legislators that are supposed to represent me and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

I understand that because of the tragedy in Las Vegas, there's a desire to "do something". Something to prevent the same thing from happening. Something to save lives. Senate Bill 0707 (and companion House Bill 0888) "Criminal Law – Firearm Crimes – Rapid Fire Trigger Activator" is something, but it's the wrong something. These bills, as currently worded, are too broad in their scope, are based on something that can not be defined - the "standard rate of fire" for a firearm, and will do nothing to stop crime.

First, to expand on what I mean by "too broad in scope". The primary devices targeted by these bills (bump stocks and trigger cranks) are currently owned by many law-abiding gun owners. They are used for recreational and lawful purposes. Many more devices (match-grade/competition triggers and adjustable gas blocks, among others) that are not a bump stock or trigger crank could also be considered to increase the rate of fire, and are owned by far more law-abiding gun owners. These are also used for recreational, sporting, and totally lawful purposes. The broad reach of this bill puts tens of thousands of Maryland citizens at risk of becoming criminals.

As for what I mean regarding the inability to define a "standard rate of fire", the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) are the "go to guys" for determining the classification of firearms and firearms accessories. BATFE doesn't use rate of fire as a factor at all, and why? Because there is no standard. To determine the difference between a fully automatic machine gun and a semi-automatic rifle, they instead define classification based on the function of the "firing device", or trigger. Maryland's own statues use a similar approach. From Article - Criminal Law, Section 4-401 (c):

“Machine gun” means a loaded or unloaded weapon that is capable of automatically discharging more than one shot or bullet from a magazine by a single function of the firing device.

BATFE have previously reviewed the legality of bump stocks and trigger crank products. They determined that these products did not convert a semi-automatic firearm into a fully automatic one. Thus, these products comply with Federal statute, do not violate any laws, and are completely legal to own.

The standard rate of fire determination cannot be made because there is no such thing. Two identical firearms used by two different people will exhibit different rates of fire based more on the experience level of the person than with what devices/accessories are attached to the firearm.

Regarding the chance of this legislation preventing crime, or even another tragedy like Las Vegas - there is none. The means with which someone commits a crime or atrocity is purely secondary to the motivation to commit the act itself. You cannot legislate morality or bad decisions.

Thank you for your time,
Me

This bears repeating. Great piece of work!

Stoveman · Feb 28, 2018

Watching the replay now, I see Rocket Jay sitting right behind Guzzling Liz.

44man · Feb 28, 2018

I am at work busier than I can Lee up with but I watched what I could. Is it just me or do the reps seem like they have their minds made up already?

And I only saw a few but the folks on our side I did see said they don’t own, don’t know anyone who owned or knows of anyone in md that owns a bumpstock or trigger device??

Can that be true? Since I know literally 50+ people that do?? What’s up with that?

Maybe I missed it if someone testified that did

inkd · Feb 28, 2018

Livingthedream said:
Overall it didnt seem like the senators cared at all about what was said

They don't. When SB-281 was on the floor and folks were speaking against it, one of them was photographed playing solitaire on a computer.

Their minds are made up before they ever sit down.

wreckdiver · Feb 28, 2018

I remember watching that. It made me sick that those a holes couldn't care enough to look up from their computers to hear another point of view. The sense of entitlement was readily apparent.

rbird7282 · Feb 28, 2018

The people testifying against the bill that were saying they don't know anyone that has one or uses one did not help our cause.
Members of the committee were saying later on that its no big deal to ban them because almost no one even had them.
Most of the people in charge of writing laws in this state are complete morons. The level of stupidity is staggering.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GTOGUNNER · Feb 28, 2018

We know this has Ramirez's name on it to help him become SA for PG County.... Just like his teacher Frosh hole. Ramirez asked questions like he didn't know the first thing about bump stocks. Until he watched the videos anyway. We need to hound this guy and get him un-elected.

Livingthedream · Feb 28, 2018

rbird7282 said:
The people testifying against the bill that were saying they don't know anyone that has one or uses one did not help our cause.
Members of the committee were saying later on that its no big deal to ban them because almost no one even had them.
Most of the people in charge of writing laws in this state are complete morons. The level of stupidity is staggering.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really true, it doesnt matter who has them. Like most of the people said, its the wording of the bill that includes most gun owners. Not just people that own bump stocks and crank devices.

Schipperke · Feb 28, 2018

Sounds like Cluster is on board, check the rebuttal by Shannon then the groans. 47:03

Rack&Roll · Feb 28, 2018

Livingthedream said:
Hopefully they change the wording against trigger modifications.

Schipperke said:
That bridge may have been burned.

If you were here, you would not have posted your comment above.

I cannot say any more than that.

Schipperke · Feb 28, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
If you were here, you would not have posted your comment above.

I cannot say any more than that.

By the opening from Vallario, I was under the impression they were going to vote up or down after the hearing. I wouldn't expect they'd change anything that quickly.

If they don't vote today, then sure there is time to change it.

Livingthedream · Feb 28, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
If you were here, you would not have posted your comment above.

I cannot say any more than that.

Thank you for defending my rights and the rights of everyone here.

magnetic1 · Feb 28, 2018

So I got an email reply from Moon. Amazingly out of ALL the people I emailed, he actually read and responded :O

I replied back saying it's not MSPs job.... plus ppl can still get caught up and have to spend money defending themselves in court.

The State Police would likely issue regulations specifying which devices are banned for sale, so I think this won't end up being an issue.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts though, as I always digest feedback

- Del. David Moon

danb · Feb 28, 2018

magnetic1 said:
So I got an email reply from Moon. Amazingly out of ALL the people I emailed, he actually read and responded :O

I replied back saying it's not MSPs job.... plus ppl can still get caught up and have to spend money defending themselves in court.

And: it should be done through COMAR. Remind Moon that MDSP does not write regulations, and there have been numerous instances where MDSP banned rifles, then un-banned them based on more commentary. They then disavowed the whole baned rifle thing as not really the law (only "guidance", MDSP does not make law).

rbird7282 · Feb 28, 2018

magnetic1 said:
So I got an email reply from Moon. Amazingly out of ALL the people I emailed, he actually read and responded :O

I replied back saying it's not MSPs job.... plus ppl can still get caught up and have to spend money defending themselves in court.

Yeah MSP will take care of it just like when they added shooting one live round as part of the HQL after it was specifically removed from the final bill by the legislature.
Of course they should be trusted, they'll know it when they see it just like good and substantial.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Schipperke · Feb 28, 2018

The State Police would likely issue regulations specifying which devices are banned for sale, so I think this won't end up being an issue.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts though, as I always digest feedback

- Del. David Moon

That's a terrible picture..

Boondock Saint · Mar 1, 2018

I received a reply from Delegate Cluster (R) who sits on the House Judiciary Committee. His response is...less than encouraging.

me said:
Delegate Cluster,

I'm not an NRA member, and I don't own a bump stock. However, I'm disappointed to read in the Sun this morning that you "struggle to to see why someone would need [a bump stock.]" As a constituent and long time resident of District 8, I'm especially troubled to hear something like this coming from a member of the more conservative party in Maryland.

As the NRA rep pointed out to you, the Bill of Rights is exactly that. It isn't about need, it's about a fundamental right. We're talking about a piece of plastic that is used safely by hundreds of thousands of firearm owners in the country. Literally one person infamously misused it, and a supposedly solid voter for firearm rights in Maryland brings up the concept of "need."

I do not support further gun control in any form. Maryland already has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, yet it is home to the most violent city in the country. It's clear that gun control is a failed policy.

I hope that you will vote against any measures that restrict the rights of law abiding citizens. I will be voting in both the primary and general elections, as always, and your record on firearm legislation is quite important to me and my fellow constituents.

Sincerely,

His response, while a "no" on the bill, is only a "no in its current form."

Del. Cluster said:
(spells my name incorrectly...),

In the current form I cannot vote for this bill. I understand your concerns but I also agree with the National NRA Statement “the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.” I was surprised by the NRA reps answer to a previous question and just wanted to clarify. I believe in the 2nd amendment and have always voted to support your rights.

I understand your concerns and will take them into consideration when given an opportunity to vote on the bill, but as of right now in its current form I am a no on HB 888.

Delegate Joe Cluster

I smell a rat. The votes are more than likely there in committee to get this out of here without a Republican jumping ship. But it could be passed with "bipartisan support." :sad20:

Once again, we are at the mercy of Papa Joe and his desk drawer.

Fire Call!!!! Dems attempting to ram SB741/HB888...

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