Which 223 Bolt gun, Mossberg MVP or Ruger American?

I am liking the MVP Patrol Thunder Ranch

http://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-patrol-rifle-thunder-ranch-27794/

And there's the Ruger American Rifle Ranch

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/6965.html

Other than the 1 in 8 twist on the Ruger, I think I like the Mossberg better. Takes AR mags (comes with a 10 rounder), has iron sights, nice texture on the stock, looks like it has a heavier profile barrel.

What do you guys think?

I'm personally partial to the Mossberg. For me a bolt gun is for reaching out long distance so I think .223's a little light

Agree, that you are missing the accuracy advantages of a bolt rifle by not moving up to .308

I chose the Mossberg because I wanted the option of the iron sights.

What is your goal for the rifle? You seem to want a short rifle. Any reason in particular? Also, do you plan to scope it for range shooting or hunting?

I haven't shot the Mossberg but I have bought two Ruger Americans in the last month (one rimfire and one ranch in 300BO) and the trigger on both of them is amazing right out of the box. I say buy the Ruger.

I have a Mossberg MVP 223 bolt. Regret the purchase.

Acceptance of AR mags is a gimmicky feature that serves no true purpose, but introduces a ton of issues into the design, as AR mags originally designed for semiautos do not easily work well with bolt actions systems. Causes the addition of cheesy and unreliable proprietary parts to be engineered into the bolt that can be sourced only from Mossberg. Had to do that twice when stuff failed.

IMHO there's no reason to have 5.56mm NATO chambers in a bolt, as all the decent ammo is Remington anyway. Unlike some people I still feel the 223 bolt is a great purchase, I shoot 200-300yd at ranges the overwhelming majority of the time, and 223 is great for that and a lot of fun. But a Savage would have been more optimal and easier to maintain.

BossmanPJ said:

What is your goal for the rifle? You seem to want a short rifle. Any reason in particular? Also, do you plan to scope it for range shooting or hunting?

Click to expand...

Range toy. Originally I was going to get a magnum rimfire bolt gun and then I realized that 223 is about the same price (in quantity) or less than 17 or 22 magnum. So why not 223/556 if I have ARs int that caliber?

I already have a Savage 10 308 bolt gun and a Thompson Center Icon in 243.

CodeWarrior1241 said:

I have a Mossberg MVP 223 bolt. Regret the purchase.

Acceptance of AR mags is a gimmicky feature that serves no true purpose, but introduces a ton of issues into the design, as AR mags originally designed for semiautos do not easily work well with bolt actions systems. Causes the addition of cheesy and unreliable proprietary parts to be engineered into the bolt that can be sourced only from Mossberg. Had to do that twice when stuff failed.

IMHO there's no reason to have 5.56mm NATO chambers in a bolt, as all the decent ammo is Remington anyway. Unlike some people I still feel the 223 bolt is a great purchase, I shoot 200-300yd at ranges the overwhelming majority of the time, and 223 is great for that and a lot of fun. But a Savage would have been more optimal and easier to maintain.

Click to expand...

You bring up some really good points. Also - the Ruger has a 1 in 8 twist barrel.

Also looking at CZ 527 and Savage 11 HOG.

dreadpirate said:

You bring up some really good points. Also - the Ruger has a 1 in 8 twist barrel.

Click to expand...

So here's the thing with twist - MVP sold me on the whole thing of my AR and my bolt sharing the same consumables - mags, ammo, same barrel length, same chamber dimensions, same twist. I think this worked on other buyers as well. But what I failed to realize is that the 62gr milspec rounds aren't all that accurate... And the heavier 65-77gr rounds that stabilize with the AR and MVP's 1:7 best actually cost what decent 308 rounds do... Meanwhile, a bolt with a 1:8 or 1:9 will do the cheap 55gr Rem at my common ranges 100-300yd just fine and are a lot of fun... So wtf did I bother with the MVP, right?!

I do have a solution for all this though... Bought a Howa mini barreled action for 7.62x39 M43. Made for 311 bullets, handles steel case fine as per manual and reviews, eats dirt cheap imported ammo like a champ. Shares ammo with my VZ. Just fine for range time under 300yd, and I can make it as a chassis rifle for the fun of it with LSS, or have it put into a normal stock. Going with the chassis for now, gotta get time to put it all together.

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk

In my opinion it is hard to beat a Savage out of the box. I have had several and all were excellent shooters. They also have a very good trigger and detachable mags in most of the models. The Savage 10 in .223 would be a great range rifle.

BossmanPJ said:

In my opinion it is hard to beat a Savage out of the box. I have had several and all were excellent shooters. They also have a very good trigger and detachable mags in most of the models. The Savage 10 in .223 would be a great range rifle.

Click to expand...

8.3 lbs with Nikon 3-9X scope. Same setup in the stainless steel Model 16 weighs 7.25 lbs.

Cabelas also offers the model 10T. I have had 2 of them and wish I hadn't moved them along. Both excellent shooters. See link.

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod....z_btnclk=YMAL-2464333&WT.z_pg_ref=prd1695199

CodeWarrior1241 said:

So here's the thing with twist - MVP sold me on the whole thing of my AR and my bolt sharing the same consumables - mags, ammo, same barrel length, same chamber dimensions, same twist. I think this worked on other buyers as well. But what I failed to realize is that the 62gr milspec rounds aren't all that accurate... And the heavier 65-77gr rounds that stabilize with the AR and MVP's 1:7 best actually cost what decent 308 rounds do... Meanwhile, a bolt with a 1:8 or 1:9 will do the cheap 55gr Rem at my common ranges 100-300yd just fine and are a lot of fun... So wtf did I bother with the MVP, right?!

I do have a solution for all this though... Bought a Howa mini barreled action for 7.62x39 M43. Made for 311 bullets, handles steel case fine as per manual and reviews, eats dirt cheap imported ammo like a champ. Shares ammo with my VZ. Just fine for range time under 300yd, and I can make it as a chassis rifle for the fun of it with LSS, or have it put into a normal stock. Going with the chassis for now, gotta get time to put it all together.

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

From the reviews I've seen, even with 1:9 twist, it seems to manage MOA or a little less even with heavier 75 and 77gr rounds.

As for expense, depends on what you are looking at. Yeah, with the most premium match .223 and .308 rounds, the price difference is minimal. On the other hand, highly accurate, good rounds the price difference is still big. Also shootability. Maybe I am a wuss, but 40-50 rounds of .308/7.62 in a lighter weight bolt gun and I am done for the day unless I am wearing a recoil pad or winter clothing. .223/5.56? I've never hit a limit. Hundreds of rounds in a range session?

75/64gr Gold dots shoot great in my ARs both 16" and 20" (.223 wylde 1:8 twist the both), MOA or slightly sub MOA and you can find them at $10 a box on sale several places. IMI 69/77gr 5.56 match runs $14 or so on sale a lot and also can shoot MOA or somewhat less on my rifles. PPU match shoots just as well, just slightly less powerful since it is .223 and that can be found on sale for $10 a box often as well.

It could simply be a perfect match, but IMI M855 shoots about .75 MOA (with about 1 in 7 being fliers that open up the group to 2MOA or so). $7.50 a box on sale often and can get discounts for cheaper...

I haven't run in to any other M855 that does better than 2.5MOA though.

I forget which Mossberg it is, but they make one of the MVPs with I think a 20" barrel and a 1:7 twist. That is the one I am super interested in. The mag compatibility is something I am kind of interested in, but I really want something with a 20+" barrel for a .223/5.56 bolt gun. I want one that can reach out there to shoot cheaply at 500+ yards. I haven't yet done more than 300yds. I get I need the experience to know what I really want for that long, but when it comes down to it if I am going to invest the time to go to a 500+ yard range (I don't mean 1000 yard shooting), I also want to feel fine in spending several hours and a couple of hundred rounds shooting. Doesn't mean I won't take a .308 with me, but I am not spending hours shooting one (not unless I am shooting the shit for minutes between trigger pulls). Even padding up, $200 of ammo in .308 vs $80-100 in .223 is also a nice difference.

One thing I can say, the MVP is laser accurate, that I never had complaints about. 5 round groups are 3" across at 300yd with good ammo when I do my part. It's a 1:7 16" barrel in the chassis from the factory, and the whole package is so heavy that recoil from 223 is nonexistent.

Talking to people here in a thread relatively recently, should have bought a 223 savage. Might still if I can sell the MVP at some point. A chassis for a decent Savage can be gotten, and short action mags are out there too.

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk

BossmanPJ said:

Cabelas also offers the model 10T. I have had 2 of them and wish I hadn't moved them along. Both excellent shooters. See link.

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod....z_btnclk=YMAL-2464333&WT.z_pg_ref=prd1695199

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

CodeWarrior1241 said:

One thing I can say, the MVP is laser accurate, that I never had complaints about. 5 round groups are 3" across at 300yd with good ammo when I do my part. It's a 1:7 16" barrel in the chassis from the factory, and the whole package is so heavy that recoil from 223 is nonexistent.

Talking to people here in a thread relatively recently, should have bought a 223 savage. Might still if I can sell the MVP at some point. A chassis for a decent Savage can be gotten, and short action mags are out there too.

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Which Savage?

lazarus said:

I forget which Mossberg it is, but they make one of the MVPs with I think a 20" barrel and a 1:7 twist. That is the one I am super interested in.

Click to expand...

http://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-lr-rifle-27696/

I like this one better

http://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-lr-t-tactical-rifle-27698/

BossmanPJ said:

In my opinion it is hard to beat a Savage out of the box. I have had several and all were excellent shooters. They also have a very good trigger and detachable mags in most of the models. The Savage 10 in .223 would be a great range rifle.

Click to expand...

I agree! Savage makes a very accurate, reasonable priced rifle right out of the box, no enhancements needed. That said, I have a CZ527 of my brother's at the house right now, it's a 223 and a really sharp looking rifle. I haven't shot it and he's in the hospital right now, so I'll ask him next tomorrow when I see him how it shoots. (he was on his way home from the range when a dog ran out in front of him and he missed the dog, but totaled the car and busted himself up pretty badly.. )