Restrictions

Adolph Oliver Bush · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
I clearly explained the picnic issue, smh

And nobody, at least not me, is supporting their scheme. I'm just telling you how it is. It would seem that anybody who's a maryland resident would want a full non-restrictive permit, without providing good and substantial reason. I thought this was understood.......

I want constitutional carry. Do i need a permit to exercise free speech? Or so im not unreasonably searched? How many gangbangers bother to get permits? Permitting schemes only affect the law abiding. Thats not the type of people i, for one, am worried about.

MdGunFiend · Aug 3, 2019

Adolph Oliver Bush said:
I want constitutional carry. Do i need a permit to exercise free speech? Or so im not unreasonably searched? How many gangbangers bother to get permits? Permitting schemes only affect the law abiding. Thats not the type of people i, for one, am worried about.

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say here.
Most states require a gun permit just to carry
Only difference here is Maryland requires good and substantial reason.
As mentioned, thought it was understood that we would want unrestrictive carry, so you lost me

Occam · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
Plus if you know anything about MARYLAND permits, you know when you renew, you still have to provide documents that you deal with cash

Since that's NOT the reason most people are currently issued permits, that really doesn't apply.

Not much has changed in permit process in 20 years

Yeah, it has.

If you try to apply saying you're just a business owner and talk on the phone everywhere you go,do everything digital, and don't deal with cash or merchandise, they won't give you a permit.

They issued me a permit despite my doing almost all of my banking electronically and handling essentially no cash or merchandise. My being on call (via my phone!) everywhere I go and having to react to business issues that can come up 24x7 are exactly the basis for the permit (which currently has no restrictions, but we all know that's likely to change when I renew under the new emissary from the crown).

No, things are NOT the same as 20 years ago.

Applehd · Aug 3, 2019

Not piling on(although I would like to)... just enjoying some :popcorn:

MdGunFiend · Aug 3, 2019

Occam said:
Since that's NOT the reason most people are currently issued permits, that really doesn't apply.

They issued me a permit despite my doing almost all of my banking electronically and handling essentially no cash or merchandise. My being on call (via my phone!) everywhere I go and having to react to business issues that can come up 24x7 are exactly the basis for the permit (which currently has no restrictions, but we all know that's likely to change when I renew under the new emissary from the crown).

No, things are NOT the same as 20 years ago.

So what is the #1 reason people are issued gun permits? because they bank electronically? or because they talk on a phone not in their name? please tell me what the #1 reason is..serious question.

Please comprehend as well, I said not much has changed in 20years, I never said nothing changed, and common sense says its impossible for nothing to change in 20 years. Remind you, I had a permit all those years, so stop harping on 20 years ago, when obviously I had to be up to date on permits when I am continually renewing them up until present day, smh. Its like the year of 1996 is all y'all know LoL, get past that, my goodness.

And from what you're telling me, I have no idea why they gave you a permit, you don't need one. Nobody is going to rob you of your business phone conversations smh. And Nobody robs people because they do digital transactions,not that they would even know that they do. You have to have a good and substantial reason to get a permit, that surely hasn't changed in 20 years. From what you stated, you don't seem to have either... So basically you told police, you're on call? and presto they give you a permit? Not buying it. Has to be more to the story. On call applies to most business owners, but most permits have restrictions, that's fact

Occam · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
So what is the #1 reason people are issued gun permits?

Because under the state's absurd G&S concept, running a business can be seen as an assumed risk of sorts. In your wallet are the keys to your financial castle. You know alarm codes. You carry keys to company vehicles or other facilities. Your clients may be sensitive in some way. You might have with you or have access to equipment.

And from what you're telling me, I have no idea why they gave you a permit, you don't need one.

I didn't attach my G&S statement here, for good reason. Point is that your earlier assertion was wrong, and your judgement just now is wrong, too.

So basically you told police, you're on call? and presto they give you a permit? Not buying it. Has to be more to the story

What you're on call FOR, and what you have ACCESS TO can more than satisfy their standards if you can show that you're active in your business. Cash didn't even come up in the application or investigation. Establishing that I'm the owner of the business(es) and that it's the source of my income is the central aspect of it. Yes, Maryland's standards are irrational. But they're not how you describe them.

MdGunFiend · Aug 3, 2019

Occam said:
Because under the state's absurd G&S concept, running a business can be seen as an assumed risk of sorts. In your wallet are the keys to your financial castle. You know alarm codes. You carry keys to company vehicles or other facilities. Your clients may be sensitive in some way. You might have with you or have access to equipment.

I didn't attach my G&S statement here, for good reason. Point is that your earlier assertion was wrong, and your judgement just now is wrong, too.

What you're on call FOR, and what you have ACCESS TO can more than satisfy their standards if you can show that you're active your business. Cash didn't even come up in the application or investigation. Establishing that I'm the owner of the business(es) and that it's the source of my income is the central aspect of it. Yes, Maryland's standards are irrational. But they're not how you describe them.

***did you answer the question? what's the #1 reason Maryland issues gun permits? are you saying its to protect oneself from getting their wallet or phone stolen? are you being serious right now?

*** I wouldn't expect you to post such exact information about G&S on a public board,but you basically ruled out money and merchandise. MARYLAND issues you a gun to protect something. Its your life,but it can't be just that obviously, or Maryland would give permits without substantial reason. (example they give permit to protect our life if you're carrying sums of money)

*** I would think most business owners' business is their key source of income.That's no where near unique to you, it clear was mine,and probably thousands of others. So You're making it seem like now in 2019 all you have to say is you're a business owner and they give you a permit. I say false. You still have to prove to them that you need a gun to carry. That hasn't changed in 20 years

Occam · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
***did you answer the question?

I did. But I'll try again: the number one reason is "because you're a business owner."

are you saying its to protect oneself from getting their wallet or phone stolen?

Since that's not what I said, no, that's not what I'm saying.

MARYLAND issues you a gun to protect something. Its your life,but it can't be just that obviously

It IS that, and obviously so. Because they come right out and SAY that's the only thing you're allowed to protect. Protecting your merchandise, money, car, business, etc, is not a good enough reason to use a weapon. Protecting your LIFE (or that of another) as someone seeks access to those things through you, that's where the risk comes in.

I would think most business owners' business is their key source of income.That's no where near unique to you

Who said it was? I sure didn't.

So You're making it seem like now in 2019 all you have to say is you're a business owner and they give you a permit.

Though I didn't actually say that, sure. It's pretty close. But the vast majority of the state's business owners have NO idea about any of this, aren't inclined to own a gun let alone carry one anyway, and don't have the fortitude to jump all of Frosh's intentional obstructions.

You still have to prove to them that you need a gun to carry. That hasn't changed in 20 years

Right. G&S has been around for a long time. Demonstrating that you run a business in good standing and thus take on risks peculiar to that way of life is not difficult. Even getting restrictions lifted hasn't been - until the reign of the New Viceroy Judge (and the OAH re-do regime). I'm not entirely sure who you seem mad at, here. Is it me, because I don't have cash and merchandise, but still have a permit? Please don't take that personally.

dblas · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
Like I said, poor reading comprehension. I said since 1996, stated the changes, and sine I had a permit up until a year ago, its relevant. Plus if you know anything about MARYLAND permits, you know when you renew, you still have to provide documents that you deal with cash, if that was your reason for the permit.

I have a permit based on owning a business, I never had to submit any type of deposit record for my initial permit or for my renewals, just a letter from my bank that I have active accounts.

MDbiker said:
I renewed it several times, so I am in the know about what permits require to be kept. Not much has changed in permit process in 20 years, even though you want to be stuck on 20 years ago, smh. Having the permit for 20 years kept me up to date on permits.That should be a basic understanding. You act like I got a permit 20 years ago for 1 year and that was it,smh.

Actually, the process has changed quite a bit from 20 years ago. Just because you kept doing the same thing for that period of time does not mean that the process didin't change. It means you did not check if it changed.

MDbiker said:
Main valid reason for getting a permit back then was sums of cash if you're a business owner,same as it is today,since you still need a good and substantial reason. If you try to apply saying you're just a business owner and talk on the phone everywhere you go,do everything digital, and don't deal with cash or merchandise, they won't give you a permit.

That would be entirely incorrect since most of my customers are municipal and pay by check or corporate credit card, I don't deal in cash, and I received a permit for my business with absolutely no issues. So did a guy that makes fly fishing rods and carries them in his car, and the other business owners that have received a permit for having a legitimate business regardless of the cash deposits they make.

MdGunFiend · Aug 3, 2019

Occam said:
I did. But I'll try again: the number one reason is "because you're a business owner."

Since that's not what I said, no, that's not what I'm saying.

It IS that, and obviously so. Because they come right out and SAY that's the only thing you're allowed to protect. Protecting your merchandise, money, car, business, etc, is not a good enough reason to use a weapon. Protecting your LIFE (or that of another) as someone seeks access to those things through you, that's where the risk comes in.

Who said it was? I sure didn't.

Though I didn't actually say that, sure. It's pretty close. But the vast majority of the state's business owners have NO idea about any of this, aren't inclined to own a gun let alone carry one anyway, and don't have the fortitude to jump all of Frosh's intentional obstructions.

Right. G&S has been around for a long time. Demonstrating that you run a business in good standing and thus take on risks peculiar to that way of life is not difficult. Even getting restrictions lifted hasn't been - until the reign of the New Viceroy Judge (and the OAH re-do regime). I'm not entirely sure who you seem mad at, here. Is it me, because I don't have cash and merchandise, but still have a permit? Please don't take that personally.

Anybody who know about permits, knows, just because you're a business owner, will NOT simply give you a permit. Theres way more to it!! But The reason I stated was the #1 reason, REQUIRED one to be a business owner, smh. However mine was more to the point: money. The fact is no one will get a permit just because they are a business owner, so your point is moot.

You're wrong again. Maryland state will NOT give you a permit just to protect your life. If you walk in and say you want a permit just to protect your life, THEY WILL DENY YOU. You have to have a good and substantial reason to get a gun permit to protect your life, again, more facts. If you can document death threats or something, you can get a permit to protect yourself. But you can't just on the face say you want to protect your life and they give you one. But like I said, if you say you're carrying money, THEN they may give you a permit to protect your life (and the money). That's how Maryland gun permit systems works.

Nobody is mad, for what? I don't know you. And of course every gun permit application is different. It just seems like you're trying to portray to the masses one can apply AND GET a permit if they are merely a business owner. That's complete falsehood!!!!

Stoveman · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
S

And from what you're telling me, I have no idea why they gave you a permit, you don't need one.

Boom! I figured the truth would come out sooner or later with this one.

dblas · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
So what is the #1 reason people are issued gun permits? because they bank electronically? or because they talk on a phone not in their name? please tell me what the #1 reason is..serious question.

There is no absolute #1 reason for MSP issuing a permit, as a matter of fact there is no ryme or reason why they issue a permit to one person, but deny another with the exact same G&S. MSP has stated in testimony in Annapolis, with regards to G&S, they know it when they see it. And in Snowden, the officer under oath stated that he made up what the requirement was, because they have no guidance.

MDbiker said:
Please comprehend as well, I said not much has changed in 20years, I never said nothing changed, and common sense says its impossible for nothing to change in 20 years. Remind you, I had a permit all those years, so stop harping on 20 years ago, when obviously I had to be up to date on permits when I am continually renewing them up until present day, smh. Its like the year of 1996 is all y'all know LoL, get past that, my goodness.

But you seem to think that permits still revolve around carrying cash and making cash transactions as the primary reason to get a permit, when clearly that is no longer the case.

MDbiker said:
And from what you're telling me, I have no idea why they gave you a permit, you don't need one. Nobody is going to rob you of your business phone conversations smh. And Nobody robs people because they do digital transactions,not that they would even know that they do. You have to have a good and substantial reason to get a permit, that surely hasn't changed in 20 years. From what you stated, you don't seem to have either... So basically you told police, you're on call? and presto they give you a permit? Not buying it. Has to be more to the story. On call applies to most business owners, but most permits have restrictions, that's fact

So an individual that received a permit for his specific situation, that does not jive with your 20 years of personal experience, is not telling the entire story??

Mkay.

Occam · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
Anybody who know about permits, knows, just because you're a business owner will NOT simply give you a permit.

And yet ...

You're wrong again. Maryland state will NOT give you a permit just to protect your life.

No, they won't. You have to be on the good boy list, which includes being able to explain why you have more perceived risk than the average citizen. It's a BS standard, but there it is. And being a business owner gets you in the club. The point is that even if they DO give you a permit, it only ALLOWS you to protect your life, not your stuff.

But like I said, if you say you're carrying money, THEN they may give you a permit to protect your life. That's how Maryland gun permit systems works.

And also when you're NOT carrying money. You do get that's the case, right? Right? Because there are lots of permit holders who don't do that.

It just seems like you're trying to portray to the masses one can apply AND GET a permit if they are merely a business owner. That's complete falsehood!!!!

I recommend spending a little more time here, acquainting yourself with those who've been through the process. They're a pretty friendly bunch, even when people use lots of exclamation points telling them they can't have the permits they ... actually have.

MdGunFiend · Aug 3, 2019

dblas said:
There is no absolute #1 reason for MSP issuing a permit, as a matter of fact there is no ryme or reason why they issue a permit to one person, but deny another with the exact same G&S. MSP has stated in testimony in Annapolis, with regards to G&S, they know it when they see it. And in Snowden, the officer under oath stated that he made up what the requirement was, because they have no guidance.

But you seem to think that permits still revolve around carrying cash and making cash transactions as the primary reason to get a permit, when clearly that is no longer the case.

So an individual that received a permit for his specific situation, that does not jive with your 20 years of personal experience, is not telling the entire story??

Mkay.

No #1 reason? so you telling me Maryland state doesn't keep records? they don't keep track of the reasons they give out permits? oh really? smh

I said primarily cash and merchandise/products/etc. I said that from the jump. Of course there are other ways to get a permit. Never said this was the only ones. I actually only sid the primary way for BUSINESS OWNERS is indicate they deal with cash. Normally Maryland will want you to show deposit receipts or documents of a CASH FLOW<---

Not sure why y'all are striving to be know it alls on the internet

MdGunFiend · Aug 3, 2019

Occam said:
And yet ...

No, they won't. You have to be on the good boy list, which includes being able to explain why you have more perceived risk than the average citizen. It's a BS standard, but there it is. And being a business owner gets you in the club. The point is that even if they DO give you a permit, it only ALLOWS you to protect your life, not your stuff.

And also when you're NOT carrying money. You do get that's the case, right? Right? Because there are lots of permit holders who don't do that.

I recommend spending a little more time here, acquainting yourself with those who've been through the process. They're a pretty friendly bunch, even when people use lots of exclamation points telling them they can't have the permits they ... actually have.

If you haven't been reading I've had Maryland permit for 20 years. Including renewing them and providing documents to police. Getting my HQL, them adding more stuff to renewing, I stayed in the know, as an active permit holder. Up until last year when I closed my business. I no longer had a good and substantial reason then. I still have several permits from other states. I'm very aware of permit processes.

But listening to y'all on here, I could open up a website site on the internet, but say I run my office out my home in Maryland, and run around everywhere talking on my business phone using my tablet to update my website. That'll get me a gun permit in Maryland, probably with no restrictions, according to y'all right? smh

Occam · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
I actually only sid the primary way for BUSINESS OWNERS is indicate they deal with cash. Normally Maryland will want you to show deposit receipts or documents of a CASH FLOW<---

The issue here is that you’re asserting a “normally” that is no longer the normal.

Not sure why y'all are striving to be know it alls on the internet

Just trying to relate the current reality. One doesn’t have to know it “all” to know that your characterization of cash carrying as the primary G&S is simply no longer correct.

MdGunFiend · Aug 3, 2019

Occam said:
Just trying to relate the current reality. One doesn’t have to know it “all” to know that your characterization of cash carrying as the primary G&S is simply no longer correct.

Primary or not, its a common way!!!!!!!! And for dealing with cash its a very SOLID way to obtain a permit. But you battling some silly point of it being the #1 reason, smh

But yes, I have learned from this board that in 2019 you can get a permit by
1) Just being a business owner
2) having a phone not in your name
3) conducting business digitally using a smart device

Thanks for the wealth of information

Applehd · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
...

Had you taken the time to attend a Handgun Permit Review Board meeting or 3 in the last 5ish years, you would know a lot more than you do now about the permitting process and the number of changes that HAVE been made... of course, this does not include the current Board whom have reverted back to the days of Chairman Thomas. God will punish me for this, but I can only hope the new "anti" members meet a similar fate as the former Chairman...

p.s. I will say an extra prayer for forgiveness before I lay my head down to sleep this evening.

Stoveman · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
No #1 reason? so you telling me Maryland state doesn't keep records? they don't keep track of the reasons they give out permits? oh really? smh

I said primarily cash and merchandise/products/etc. I said that from the jump. Of course there are other ways to get a permit. Never said this was the only ones. I actually only sid the primary way for BUSINESS OWNERS is indicate they deal with cash. Normally Maryland will want you to show deposit receipts or documents of a CASH FLOW<---

Not sure why y'all are striving to be know it alls on the internet

Says the know it all on the internet who keeps posting like it's 1999...

Occam · Aug 3, 2019

MDbiker said:
Primary or not, its a common way!!!!!!!!

Sure, working with cash is a common enough thing for some people to mention. But that's not the point. You're getting push back (though now you're changing your story) because you told us that if you "don't deal with cash or merchandise, they won't give you a permit."

We're trying, really hard, to explain to you that that is simply not correct.

Restrictions

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Banned

Not Even ONE Indictment

Throbbing Member

Banned

Not Even ONE Indictment

Banned

Not Even ONE Indictment

Past President, MSI

Banned

TV Personality

Past President, MSI

Not Even ONE Indictment

Banned

Banned

Not Even ONE Indictment

Banned

Throbbing Member

TV Personality

Not Even ONE Indictment

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics